Exalted Pickle

[Spatula]

This post contains spoilers for the old 3.0E adventure The Heart of Nightfang Spire.

So, I'm looking for some advice on a game situation that occured tonight. I'm taking a party of four through Nightfang, which (if you're not familiar with it) is a big tower full of all kinds of nasty undead that have recently awoken. In the original adventure, there were also some (subterrean) gorillians that broke into the tower's catacombs and were living there contentedly until the undead awoke. Now they're fighting a losing battle vs the tower's inhabitants, as their kind are being kidnapped, tortured, and turned into servants of the BBEG.

I've replaced the gorillians with cave trolls (average Int 3 trolls, basically) since it's key that the gorillians' leader is actually kinda-sorta smart (for one of her kind), and gorillians were changed to have animal intelligence in 3.5E.

The party consists of a CG barbarian, a LG rogue / slayer of domiel (has a few exalted feats to qualify for his PrC), a LG cleric of the silver flame with Vow of Poverty (has a lot of exalted feats), and a LG wizard / silver pyromancer (from Eberron's Five Nations, basically an arcane paladin). Exalted feats require the character to be extra-special good, above and beyond a normal person of good alignment.

They've been making their way through the tower, destroying undead as they find them. They've also run across groups of cave trolls (sometimes also in the presence of undead) that would attack them on sight. One of the trolls in each of these groups would be wearing a skull-like leather muzzle, basically a sign of the troll's status as a foreman of sorts - these are the trolls that have been tortured and pressed in the service of the BBEG.

Tonight, they penetrated into the catacombs beneath the tower, and came across the cave trolls that still remain free of the undead influence. The trolls, confused by the small not-undead creatures before them, do not attack and fall back rather than confront the PCs. The PCs, for their part, chase down the trolls and wipe them out.

The barbarian noted several times as they were preparing to take the fight to the trolls that the creatures didn't attack, none of them had a leather mask thing, they weren't a threat, etc. The exalted characters were insistant on killing them, however. The slayer of domiel can detect evil like a paladin, but never did so. They cornered the trolls and let loose with fireballs, at which point the trolls defended themselves. The PCs managed to kill or maim the vast majority of them before running out of fire spells and teleporting out of the tower, and then we stopped for the night.

Now... I can understand the whole troll = kill thing, but I tried to make it as clear as possible that these trolls were different than the others that they had encountered, and the barbarian, at least, picked up on that. It seems to me that the exalted characters failed in some respect, although I'm not sure I would characterize their actions as a "willfully evil." Should they lose their feats until they can atone? Is there some other lesser penalty I can apply? Or am I just overreacting?

 

[Shemeska]

Should they lose their feats until they can atone?

Absolutely, at the very least based on what you've mentioned.

 

[Wycen]

Man I thought for sure an RPG.netter got drunk and was posting about their Exalted character.

I'm not sure you need to punish them yet. What might have seemed obvious to you, may not have been so to them.

How about just inform them casually, "you know, those monsters you killed, well, they weren't a threat and if you continue in such a manner it will threaten your Exalted status, and thus your feats, powers, etc."

 

[Stalker0]

I'm always a fan of acting as the players conscious in that respect, be there guilt, chastise them for their actions. But let them off with a warning for the 1st time.

 

[Blackwind]

Better yet, act as the PCs' unconscious. The night after they massacre the trolls, you pass one player a note describing a very disturbing dream that causes his character to seriously question the morality of his actions. I use dreams and synchronicities all the time in my game, and players seem to love it. It adds depth.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Hmm, I was thinking I would prefer an actual exalted ex-cucumber compared to one of my characters. Tehre goes my fun.

As for your dilemna, I would go with the dream sequence, and maybe even a failure chance on their feats, ay 10%, tell them they jsut cannot feel the pure flow of power formthe heavens right now.

 

[ashockney]

It's funny, because I also ran Heart of NF Spire recently. I also switched the gorillas out, but I used an orc offshoot instead of troll. The party had been fighting these orc slaves since the very first encounter in the campaign, so it was all tied in. I don't recall having a moral dilemna though, and I'm certain my party was not all LG (they may have sent in an assassin, or somewhat crazed arcane caster to deal with things).

As far as what I'd recommend, these types of things are always tough. On the one hand, you have more than enough evidence here for there to be consequences. On the other hand, as a DM, we are always responsible for our player's ability to effectively understand and interact with the game environment. To understand the appropriate response to your question, it's important to consider your past experiences and the player's expectations. If you have forced dire consequences upon the party in the past, and they are used to this type of plot element driving the story in your campaign - let them have it. If your players would be "shocked" or "surprised" at this loss, I would strongly consider taking an alternative action. It should, definitely, however be addressed to help condition your players that this kind of thing can and will occur. Blackwind gave an awesome idea on how to handle that in a "gaming" environment.

Finally, let's face it. With a very, very nasty BBEG boss encounter to follow (one which claimed at least one, and maybe two PC's in my campaign), they're going to need everything they've got. Playtest that last battle a little bit, it can be brutal.

 

[XO]

Moral Dilemma ????

NOT !

Unless you have firmly established either the history / knowledge or precedent that some typically evil creatures within yoru campaign CAN be good, or at least neutral-ish, the proper frame of reference for the characters is "Troll, even enslaved, and then freed = trouble" leading into "a good troll is a dead troll".

Also another point : if deities were so keen on removing feats, spells, and actively applying penalties to their servants, wouldn't it make sense to ALSO send a minor pang of guilt or use a similar device BEFORE events take place?

If the omniscient deity, aware of its servants sins against cult dogma while servants themselves remain blissfully unawares (hence the omniscience), does not expend minimal energy to maintain proper stewardship and direction, within an active / intervening hand context, does not offer counsel or redirect as PREVENTIVE measures, but is willing to expend considerable energy to chastise, well, the good cults would quickly sink into depravity...

 

[DragonLancer]

Assuming that in your campaign world trolls are an evil race and that they are common/uncommon enough that people know that, then they haven't done anything wrong. Remember to consider what they don't know from their side of the DM's screen.

 

[Spatula]

"A good X is a dead X" doesn't really wash for exalted characters, though, unless perhaps X is something that is, by its very nature, evil (demons, devils, undead). Most mortal creatures, and especially humanoid-type creatures are not kill-on-sight evil, even in a standard D&D campaign (trolls are only "usually" evil, for example). In Eberron, this is even more true.