Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

[Ximenes088]

There is a big difference between giving up power for versatility, and giving up power for parlor tricks.

I am getting tired of WotC putting old names on new, unrelated mechanics. 4e "multiclassing" is mechanics for dabbling. 1-3e multiclassing was mechanics for filling *multiple* roles, albeit weaker than a single classed character.

With four feats, a third of your powers come from another class. With paragon slots, half of your powers are from another class. This is dabbling?

And as for them being "parlor tricks", I think you're getting 4e confused with 3e. _3e_ let you trade 9th level sorcerer spells for 2nd level cleric spells. Your 4e multiclass abilities will be maximum-level powers- that is, the _opposite_ of dabbling in parlor tricks.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Maybe I haven't been following how all this Power stuff works closely enough, but I was thinking of from my own point of view of how I create PCs/NPCs which tends to be organic (how did this person get to be how they are?)

But my initial response to your suggestion was, what if I don't want to give them a 10th level power? What if another fits the idea of the character better?

If you're building PC's and NPC's in an organic fashion I think 4e is going to be very difficult for you, as it is aimed much more towards an approach that says "What is good for the story right now?"

That's why the multi-classing excerpt looks like it does - with retraining and these feat choices creating a high level PC is comparitively easy - just give them the Multiclass feat they want, and then pick appropriate powers for their level. It's mechanically irrelevant when they picked that feat, all that matters in game terms is what they can do now.

 

[Green Knight]

Ok, so a 10th level fighter, with Arcane Initiate, Novice Power, Acolyte Power and Adept Power will have Arcana, Magic Missile 1/encounter, a level 4- Wizard encounter power, a level 8- Wizard utility power, and a level 10- Wizard daily power.

Parlor tricks? I think not.

Actually, assuming the Wizard powers are the most powerful, that character will have a 7th-Level Wizard Encounter Power, a 9th-Level Wizard Daily Power, and a 10th-Level Wizard Utility Power.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Okay, who from WotC can I kick in the... behind so that they fix the images in the article?
I demand a look on this artwork! Now!

Simplifies, yes. To the point where it's not really multiclassing. It's just gaining another power unrelated to the class, if you see what I mean. Taking a feat is that gives you another class' power is hardly multiclassing. A fighter with fireball is hardly a multiclassed fighter - he's just like a 3e fighter with a Necklace of Fireballs. Having one or two powers of a class doesn't, IMO, imply multiclassing. I think the only real multiclassing you'll find is in the paragon path. I just wish they'd included that bit rather than this 'thing' they call multiclassing which isn't really at all.

Pinotage

If 1/3 of your powers come from another class, that seems significant to any type of character. Keep in mind that you don't get more then 9 class powers till level 10, and only the number of your class-related utility power increases later. Relevant Link

Furthermore, the base feats already seem to exemplify having a relation to the desired class - being trained in Arcana seems one of the defining factors of any dabbler or multiclasser of the arcane.

But I agree that it's not the same as a 1:1 multiclass. You're two (maybe three) parts Fighter, and one part Wizard. Paragon-Multiclassing might add more, but you won't get parity.


I think that my first 4E character might become a Warlord, possibly with Fighter Multiclassing. Seems like a perfect fit.

 

[Mort_Q]

How do cantrips and rituals work into this?

 

[dimonic]

Huh? Obviously, multi-classing can only be compared to how it was handled in previous editions of the game, and for those of us who like the method or at least the idea of how it was implemented are going to see this implementation as something way short of what we want and are used to.

It is just this taking feats things doesn't seem like "multi-classing" as you don't really have multiple classes, you just have a power or two from another class in addition to your main class.

You do get: a skill (not all the skills, but bear in mind that you needed to allocate skill points from your limited reserve to those skills), and you get a power for each feat you invest.

You don't get: HP - meh. Saves - irrelevant, and were much abused. Other class features - again, often over abused - 1 or 2 levels of another class gave you pretty much everything you wanted from that class without giving up anything significant unless you were a spell caster.

So sure, it is a step down from the player's point of view for multiclassed martial characters. I contend that it is a better design, and will tend to create far fewer silly loopholes and overpowered characters.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

With the extremely low number of powers that characters get, the limited multiclassing makes sense to me. A Level 20 Fighter(Warlord-WarlordPP) has a little less than half their powers as a Warlord.

 

[Green Knight]

How do cantrips and rituals work into this?

Anyone can use Rituals so long as they take the Ritual Casting Feat (There might be some other requirements, like ranks in Arcana or Religion, but that's unknown at the moment).

As for Cantrips, they're a Wizard Class Feature, which you can't get your hands on through these multiclassing Feats. It may be possible to get them if you multiclass in lieu of taking a Paragon Path, but that's an assumption, not a hard fact.

 

[dimonic]

Actually, assuming the Wizard powers are the most powerful, that character will have a 7th-Level Wizard Encounter Power, a 9th-Level Wizard Daily Power, and a 10th-Level Wizard Utility Power.

Presuming that you can retrain those powers by that level.

 

[lightblade]

I think the strongest multi-class options will be ones where you chose a paragon path for the class you have dabbled in via feats. The Rogue-Kensai people have mentioned seems a lot more exciting and thematic than a Rogue-Fighter, for instance.