Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

[Rechan]

To those who think that the multi-classing system is a waste of a feat for swapping a power:

Can you point to two heroic-tier feat that you think is stronger than picking one power from another class's list and exchanging it for your own, that you can also trade up as you level?

 

[hong]

To those who think that the multi-classing system is a waste of a feat for swapping a power:

Can you point to a heroic-tier feat that you think is stronger than picking one power from another class's list and exchanging it for your own, that you can also trade up as you level?

Can you point to a heroic-tier feat that is weaker than swapping one power for another?

 

[hong]

Useful like getting one power for another?

That just means you're down a feat. You still have the same number of powers.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't think we need worry as much about "wasting" feats as we did in 3e (especially for fighters). Feats in 4e, seem to be much more based around making your character more specific and unique, essentially they are character concept builders.

As such, it certainly isn't wasteful to gain powers from another class for a feat that helps establish your character concept (which should be what multiclassing should be about).

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Can you point to a heroic-tier feat that you think is stronger than picking one power from another class's list and exchanging it for your own, that you can also trade up as you level?

I don't think that the multiclass system looks like a waste of a feat, but I can point to one:

Toughness

unless it's changed since last November, which is entirely possible.

Also, Human Perserverance, which at the least gives +1 to saves.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Can you point to a heroic-tier feat that is weaker than swapping one power for another?

Elven Precision doesn't look like much:

Elven Precision [Elf]

Prerequisites: Elf, elven accuracy racial power, heroic tier
Benefit: When you use the elven accuracy power, you gain a +2 bonus to the new attack roll.

 

[Rechan]

Can you point to a heroic-tier feat that is weaker than swapping one power for another?

Lost in the crowd: that gives a +2 to AC when adjacent to two larger enemies.

The human's feat that gives a +1 to saving throws.

Feat used to skill train.

Action surge - Only usable once every other encounter.

Elven Precision.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

The human's feat that gives a +1 to saving throws.

You think that's weak?

 

[Voadam]

See, here's where your argument runs off the rails, for me.

In 3.5, you couldn't get the 50/50 half-caster character with just multiclassing. You had to add a PrC, most of which (except the mystic theurge itself) weren't core.

In 4E, you can't get the 50/50 half-caster character with just multiclassing; you'll need one of the forthcoming classes, like the swordmage.

I see no real difference between the two, except that one uses the term "multiclass" and one doesn't. In both cases, though, you have to use a new mechanic in addition to the multiclassing.

So, 4E has a system that handles dabbling well (and, at least for some people, arguably better than prior systems), but needs new mechanics for an even split. The same was true of 3.5. Where's the big difference?

Eh, in 3.5 I house ruled in Arcana Unearthed/Evolved spellcasting multiclassing rules to cover the 50/50 caster. Caster level stacks, spell slots stack, spells known stack. The caster will have lower level spells but a ton of spell choices and not be behind on caster levels. These multiclassers are similar to theurges but from level 2 on and support both dabbling and 50/50 splits.

The big power is still in the most powerful spells so they are weaker than the focused spell casters but are not so dramatically behind the curve as if they started over in casting.

 

[Andor]

1st, 2nd and 3.5 all allowed decently balanced, multi-role characters. 4e doesn't. I have no problem with the mechanics as presented, but I find their name, multi-classing, to be dishonest.

Um... No. 1st and 2nd ed multiclassing was not balanced by any stretch of the imagination. A single classed character was simply and purely weaker than a multiclassed character in those systems. That's why humans were rarer than boobs on a beholder. Remember those days?