Excerpt: Multiclassing (merged)

[Bishmon]

By that logic, no power you pick up is a gain, because no matter what power you pick, you're giving up 3 or so equal-level powers from your class list. Do you see the logical flaw here? If I have three powers at third level, and gain another one at fourth level, I have gained a power. If that power is gained from my own class list, I'm "losing out" on anywhere from 3-5 (probably) other powers I could have taken at that level. What difference does it make whether I'm "giving up" powers from my own class list to pick the one I want from that list or "giving up" powers to pick from another class's list?

Because you're using a feat! That is the entire point.

Imagine a restaurant scenario. I go in, look at a menu, and order a $10 entree. (I've just picked a power). Now I order a $5 desert. (I just chose a feat).

You go in, look at the menu, see a whole list of $10 entrees, but decide that instead of getting a desert, you'd rather look at a second list of $10 entrees and choose from that.

Well, now we've each got a $10 entree, but I've also got a $5 desert. I clearly got the better deal.

 

[Rechan]

Bad example. Now you can prepare one extra spell from the divine and arcane spell lists.

Where do you get "Extra"?

You still have your pre-existing spell slots, you just can pick and choose from the Arcane AND Divine list.

 

[AtomicPope]

3) [Arcane Power] isn't more special. Its just different. And how do any of the older forms of multiclassing cut you off from arcane power?

It is more special because it's defined as a single source rather than a function of an overall system. Older forms of multiclassing had a thing called caster level and spell level, which was applied independently of character level. A character that multiclassed often ran the risk of losing both caster level and access to higher level spells. In 4e there is neither.

 

[Kordeth]

Well, it's like a generic food metaphor. Sometimes I want to compare things to ice cream, but I should not have to discard the ability to compare things to peanut butter as well.

But you're not. You're developing a comprehensive matrix of ice cream and peanut butter, and then freely choosing between both as suits your whimsical fancy.

You are giving up a feat AND a power to get a power. That is the cost.

Your math does not resemble our earth arithmetic. If a 3rd level character has 5 powers (purely hypothetical) and he gains another one at level 4, he has 6 powers.

If a single-class character reaches level 4, he selects a new power from his class list. He has six powers.

If a multi-class character takes the Novice Power feat at 4th level, he selects a new power from his class list or the class list of another class. He has six powers.

Saying that you "give up a power" to multiclass is exactly the same as saying that every time a single class character chooses a new power on gaining a level, he's "giving up" three or four other powers because he can only choose one.

 

[Spatula]

And of course, you've read the feat descriptions? Or see them in the article? 'Cuz I sure don't. Those kind of things have never shown up in the table.

Hmm? If a feat could be taken more than once, it always showed up in the table, as a superscript # on the feat name & an associated footnote.

Now, the table in the article was probably whipped up just for that (one would hope, given the formatting errors) so if there was a footnote it probably would have been removed, so there's no way to tell. But the default is still that a feat can only be taken once. And I doubt you could take the novice, etc. feats multiple times, because that would start to really cut into your primary role, as opposed to just allowing you to dip into another class. And the dip is the stated goal of these heroic multiclassing rules.

3.5 had the broadest multi-classing rules, able to handle anything from dabbling to 50/50 splits with moderate elegance. 4e's retrograde step is unfortunate.

Well, it's still hard to say what you're really capable of doing with multiclassing in 4e, as they only gave us half the picture. The paragon multiclass rules are still a mystery.

 

[hong]

Where do you get "Extra"?

No extra spell slots. You just can pick from list x too.

To be precise, you can pick one extra spell from the divine and arcane spell lists.

 

[Rechan]

To be precise, you can pick one extra spell from the divine and arcane spell lists.

I didn't type that. So where are you reading that?

 

[mach1.9pants]

If there was this feat:

Make Divinity Magic:
Pre-req: Prepare spells.
Benefit: Now you can prepare spells from both the Divine and Arcane spell lists.

Should be more like:
Make Divinity Magic
Pre-req: spontaneous casting of arcane spells
Benefit: You can choose your spells known from the divine list

Thats about right, I think?

 

[hong]

But you're not. You're developing a comprehensive matrix of ice cream and peanut butter, and then freely choosing between both as suits your whimsical fancy.

Well, it's like a generic food metaphor. The fact that sometimes things are like ice cream does not mean I should have to pay for saying they are like peanut butter.

If a multi-class character takes the Initiate Power feat at 4th level, he selects a new power from his class list or the class list of another class. He has six powers.

... and one less feat that he could have spent on something else. Opportunity cost is perhaps a subtle concept.

 

[hong]

I didn't type that. So where are you reading that?

Exactly. You didn't type that. That's why what you typed is a bad metaphor. Almost like generic food.