Excerpt: powers (merged)

[JesterOC]

Humans (and probably dwarves) are tool using creatures. IMO it's a bad idea to somehow think that it's sufficient to rely on DM blustering and guilt-trips to keep characters from acting intelligently. If a bag of rats, handful of pebbles, long stick, etc. is sufficient to cause some undesired effect in a rule then the rule is badly designed.

I don't agree. A rule is always a compromise between complexity and simplicity. A rule should be considered a bad design if the problem comes up fairly often. If you keep having to add rules for silly circumstances, then the ruleset will become too complex and too combersome. If you do not assume some level of sanity amongst your players, you will get rules that start looking like warning labels. "Don't use microwave in a bathtub", "Do not spray bug poison in eyes!". "Do not allow players to use a bag of rats".

JMHO

JesterOC

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Not to mention the fact that Rats, being rodents would likely chew themselves right out of the bag before you even got to the dungeon.

Excellent point .... that would need to be one heck of a tough bag.

To get back to the topic on hand -- I don't see any reason to not have the power cards as a deck, either. They're just spread out like that for the photograph.

 

[Mallus]

Humans (and probably dwarves) are tool using creatures.

Partially correct. Humans are tool users, dwarves don't exist, and elves use tools made from saplings, brightly-colored mushrooms, and dew drops.

IMO it's a bad idea to somehow think that it's sufficient to rely on DM blustering and guilt-trips to keep characters from acting intelligently.

It's a bad idea to game with prats.

If a bag of rats, handful of pebbles, long stick, etc. is sufficient to cause some undesired effect in a rule then the rule is badly designed.

Stupid misuse of a tool doesn't indicate that it's badly designed. Hammers are well-designed even though, on occasion, nutters use to them to attack random passersby in shopping mall parking lots, and liquid hydrocarbon fuels are well designed, even though, on occasion, teenagers huff them.

 

[The_Fan]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the Acid Wave power. My first thought was "don't cast the brown acid wave." Dude...far out man...

 

[Mirtek]

I was under the impression that all abilities and spells in 3E also instantly alerted their target. Something like "when you make a Saving Throw, you know WHY you made it". Is that wrong?

Yes, it's wrong. Unless you saw the attack (and succeeded at a spellcraft check) you only knew that you just resisted something but not what it was and who did tried to do it you.

I think it was in the official FAQ

 

[Voss]

I don't agree. A rule is always a compromise between complexity and simplicity. A rule should be considered a bad design if the problem comes up fairly often. If you keep having to add rules for silly circumstances, then the ruleset will become too complex and too combersome. If you do not assume some level of sanity amongst your players, you will get rules that start looking like warning labels. "Don't use microwave in a bathtub", "Do not spray bug poison in eyes!". "Do not allow players to use a bag of rats".

JMHO

JesterOC

Except nothing terrible happens if someone does smack a rat around. The best you can do from what we've seen is a tiny amount of damage or a small temporary bonus. Fiddling around with the bag doesn't need to be 'Verboten!', because its a stupid thing to be doing in the middle of a fight. Its at least a move action (at the very least equivalent to getting gear out of a bag), the first time you get a character killed by goblins because you're too busy mucking about with a bag to fight them, it pretty much solves itself.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Except nothing terrible happens if someone does smack a rat around. The best you can do from what we've seen is a tiny amount of damage or a small temporary bonus. Fiddling around with the bag doesn't need to be 'Verboten!', because its a stupid thing to be doing in the middle of a fight. Its at least a move action (at the very least equivalent to getting gear out of a bag), the first time you get a character killed by goblins because you're too busy mucking about with a bag to fight them, it pretty much solves itself.

Nit-pick - since moves are reserved for actual moving or "downgrading" to minor action, it's easier a minor action or a standard action. To "nerf" the tactic, standard action is the way to go. (and honestly, considering that you try to manipulate the rat(s) to get in a specific position, standard is the only thing that really makes sense). I don't think it would have been different in 3E.

What you really need is a hench-man to do this job. (Probably a Minion. Let's hope none of the bats try to bite him... that would be a pathetic death... At higher levels, he might at least die due to some area effect)

 

[carborundum]

I'm curious about how the powers as spells thing will work out. You only have a limited number of powers, depending on your level, right? How does this compare to a wizard with many tens of spells to choose from every day?

Or did I miss something and am I now foolish?

 

[Michele Carter]

I'm quite sure I haven't seen mention of Proficiency bonus also adding to damage, and I've been scouring the threads pretty carefully.

Yes, well, it was a surprise to me too, and it's an error. It's clear under the discussion of proficiency bonuses elsewhere that they don't apply to damage.

A DM who allows the bag of rats hasn't read page 40 of the DMG, where that example is specifically invoked under the discussion of (non)legitimate targets.

 

[JohnSnow]

A DM who allows the bag of rats hasn't read page 40 of the DMG, where that example is specifically invoked under the discussion of (non)legitimate targets.

*LAUGH*

Okay, I'm not sure whether it bothers me more that you (the designers) felt the need to do it, or that some people feel the book would be incomplete if you hadn't.

In either case, that ought to make gizmo33 happy.