Excerpt: Racial Benefits

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

re: Multiclassing

"Argh! I have to waste feats to get these benefits!"

re: Racial Abilities

"Argh! I have to waste feats to get these benefits!"

Some folks are... well at least they're consistent right?

1) 4E will force people to make choices when creating their characters. "Do I want more Dragonborn abilities? Or Do I want to multiclass? Or do I want to improve my sword-fighting techniques?"

2) People are still mostly in the 3E mindset, where feats where basically only thing to diversify your characters abilities, and where they where rarer. Many of those feats where sometimes even required to do your "shtick" in 3E. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm for the "Martial Artist", Weapon focus/specialisation for the heavy hitter, Two-Weapon Fighting for non-Rangers, and so on.

I don't think anyone among us (who wasn't also a playtester) has really grasped how much the powers for each class change this. The powers are now one of your major customization option, and they are in addition to everything feats can do.
(And if I say no one has grasped it yet, this includes me, and my prediction that it changes a lot compared to 3e might be wrong. )

 

[webrunner]

Some of these are clearly better than others.

Enlarge Dragon Breath increases the aoe area by almost 200%. How is that on par with, say, +1 to acrobatics/stealth and a bonus to overland speed? I'm also not a huge fan to these little situational bonuses like Dodge Giants. It's certainly less of a problem than Dodge from 3e, but it's basically the same issue: the bonus is limited to specific situations, and in this case, it's possible one might even not fight Large or larger creatures.

Race, and which race is the best choice (mechanically vs. thematicly), is tough to balance. This is the first preview that's left me luke warm. I do like that they've chosen to go the feat route, however, because at least these can be retrained for something else.

Dragon Breath is an interesting thing, because although it's a useful power (probably initially one of the better ones) it probably needs the feats at higher levels more than other racial powers. The upside of playing a dragonborn is having this minor AOE for free, as well as a suite of powerful feats that increase it, but the downside is basically being forced to take those feats if you want your dragonborn's natural abilities to be reasonably helpful at higher levels.


On the "overland speed" bonus, do you think that means:
a) There's a certain % bonus in the amount of time it takes a party to get from one area to another (which is usually handwaved away anyway.. either it'll take a ridiculously long time, it'll take a long time, or you'll be there pretty quick. Usually DMs don't count the hours on horseback)
b) In combat, the number of squares you can move is increased (which is ridiculously good)
and/or
c) Increases the ability to cover ground in say, a skill challenge?

 

[Nightchilde-2]

On the quality of feats: The feats we have seen may not be as good as the best 3E feats, they are better then many of the feats that are actually in the books, and that your PC never bothered to take.

*coughcoughcoughEndurancecoughcoughcough*

 

[hong]

1) 4E will force people to make choices when creating their characters. "Do I want more Dragonborn abilities? Or Do I want to multiclass? Or do I want to improve my sword-fighting techniques?"

2) People are still mostly in the 3E mindset, where feats where basically only thing to diversify your characters abilities, and where they where rarer. Many of those feats where sometimes even required to do your "shtick" in 3E. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm for the "Martial Artist", Weapon focus/specialisation for the heavy hitter, Two-Weapon Fighting for non-Rangers, and so on.

I don't think anyone among us (who wasn't also a playtester) has really grasped how much the powers for each class change this. The powers are now one of your major customization option, and they are in addition to everything feats can do.
(And if I say no one has grasped it yet, this includes me, and my prediction that it changes a lot compared to 3e might be wrong. )

It reminds me of feats in the early days of 3E, actually. Back then, feats were just ways to make your character a bit more flexible or give you more options, rather than just more power. Hence +1 to hit with one weapon, +3 hit points, +2 to one skill, etc. Only over time did feats take on the power gain aspect. It'll be interesting to see if the same power inflation happens to 4E.

 

[vagabundo]

I don't think anyone among us (who wasn't also a playtester) has really grasped how much the powers for each class change this. The powers are now one of your major customization option, and they are in addition to everything feats can do.
(And if I say no one has grasped it yet, this includes me, and my prediction that it changes a lot compared to 3e might be wrong. )

Out of the box, I believe there will be tons of customisation. Imagine two dwarvan fighters around 12th level standing in front of you, with a warhammer and shield, in heavy plate. One has investing all his feats in dwarvan racial traits and chosen a dwarvan paragon path, dwarvan defender(in the phb1 ??). He has also picked completely different exploits from the other.

The other guy has focused on picking good feats for his class powers, some extra skills and has multiclassed into a wizard. He has forgone a paragon path and decided to deepen his multiclass and taken more spells or customised the ones he has with feats.

They look the exact same, but they would play very very different. I'm sure they would also have some additional powers from magic items they have picked up, to compliment the way they fight and adventure.

In short, I like this.

 

[Thyrwyn]

(RE: Hong RE: Derren ):Sadly it is too verbose for haiku

The Dragonborn fly;
Worlds shatter;
Cherry blossoms fall -
Spring's gentle snow.

 

[Evilhalfling]

"Light Step____Elf____Add to overland speed of group, +1 to Acrobatics and Stealth"

well I would probably take it, or give it to an NPC that traveled with the party. But I find overland speed fairly important. I think it would be better as a warlord class feature or strenghend into a warlord utility power. As it would be very important for troop movement.
Hmm it actually gives elven merchants and advantage as well...
really im all about the world building.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

In regards to my Dragon Breath comment, I believe it is an encounter or daily power, so obviously it's limited in its usefulness, vs. a bonus that is around all the time. However, it's dealing damage in an area, which makes it a fantastic minion killer. Even if damage does not scale well, it gives melee types the ability to dispatch minions (which are dangerous in large numbers) quickly. In the combat part of the game, dealing damage and killing enemies is always the most useful thing one can do. In 3e, the best feats were typically geared towards combat, and the ones that were considered bad (like Endurance) were not. This can certainly have changed in 4e, but based on the feats we've seen I don't think so.

On the "overland speed" bonus, do you think that means:
a) There's a certain % bonus in the amount of time it takes a party to get from one area to another (which is usually handwaved away anyway.. either it'll take a ridiculously long time, it'll take a long time, or you'll be there pretty quick. Usually DMs don't count the hours on horseback)
b) In combat, the number of squares you can move is increased (which is ridiculously good)
and/or
c) Increases the ability to cover ground in say, a skill challenge?

It's vague at this point, certainly. I suspect "overland speed" means "travel outside of combat," which is so subjective as to be nearly useless. It certainly could be something else, though.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I really like the "action hero" theme for humans. I think this dovetails nicely with R&C's mention that humans can really forge their own destinies. It also gives them a dynamic, heroic quality. A human Fighter is totally John McClane from Die Hard .

Most of the feats seem really cool splendid. I like how they accentuate the characteristics of the class - I bet in 4e we will have Dwarf Fighters who truly are little tanks, or Elf Rangers that are ultimate badasses with bows.

I also think Half-Elves will be able to take feats from the Human or Elf list. Remember that picture of the human, half-elf, and elf eyes from the R&C art gallery? It mentioned that half-elves can make a bloodline commitment to the elf ancestors - in so doing, their eyes become more slanted. From a mechanics perspective, I be this means they'll be able to choose feats from humans and elves. Also, I still wonder if Half-Elf also includes "Half-Eladrin."

 

[beverson]

On the Quantity of Feats: A 10th level charecter will have 6 feats. So, e.g., if a charecter feels compelled to use two on racial feats and two on multiclassing, two would remain (vs. the 3 that a 10th level 3E charecter would have). Given that some things feats use to do will be covered by powers and (at higher levels) rituals, this does not seem so bad.

On the quality of feats: The feats we have seen may not be as good as the best 3E feats, they are better then many of the feats that are actually in the books, and that your PC never bothered to take.

This. It does seem like a lot of people are still in the 3.x mindset regarding Feats, and these 2 points are key in clarifying the difference. Well stated, IMHO.