Excerpt: Racial Benefits

[Ondo]

Notice the part about 7 feats, 3 from Paragon levels. That means that a regular character will get 4 (5 for human) feats in its first 10 levels.

No, it means that he will only be able to retrain 4 of his Heroic feats to Paragon by level 14 - the fact that this is an important restriction that needs to be remembered implies he had more than 4 feats in his first 10 levels.

Please try not to ridicule another poster before you have all of the facts about the game.

Also, don't ridicule when you're mis-interpreting the context - Shado accuses Derren of having a 3.x mindset, ignoring that he was correcting TerraDave's assertion that a 3rd edition character would have 3 feats at 10th level.

 

[jaldaen]

5. Select Feats. You generally don’t have to worry about the level at which you gained a particular feat, since retraining allows you to have the feats you want at any given level. Do watch out for paragon and epic feats, though. For example, a 14th-level character can’t have more than seven paragon feats (those gained at 11th, 12th, and 14th level, as well as up to four retrained feats).

Notice the part about 7 feats, 3 from Paragon levels. That means that a regular character will get 4 (5 for human) feats in its first 10 levels. I don't know whether are at 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th level, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Please try not to ridicule another poster before you have all of the facts about the game.

The idea is that you can only have 7 "paragon-level" feats at 14th-level. 3 from the 11th, 12th, and 14th level choices and 4 more from "retraining" your heroic level feats (the assumption is that you can only retrain one feat per level).

That is how we can hold that a character gains 6 feats in the heroic tier (at 1st, 2nd, 4th, etc.).

It seems I was ninja'd... oh well

 

[Bishmon]

OK, lets look as the actual prerelease information. From the Tier Excerpt:



Notice the part about 7 feats, 3 from Paragon levels. That means that a regular character will get 4 (5 for human) feats in its first 10 levels. I don't know whether are at 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th level, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Please try not to ridicule another poster before you have all of the facts about the game.

It says seven paragon feats. It lists those seven as three feats selected during the paragon tier , and up to four retrained feats selected during the heroic tier.

The fact that is says 'up to' four retrained feats seems to strongly suggest that there's more than four potential feats to retrain from the heroic tier.

 

[phil500]

Those damage bonus/proficiency feats for Dwarves and Eladrin look nice.

i think they are a little too nice, compared to the others shown. esp for classes which dont have the prof. thats 4 feats from 3.5 in one.

admittedly, im basing that on very little info.

 

[ShockMeSane]

OK, lets look as the actual prerelease information. From the Tier Excerpt:



Notice the part about 7 feats, 3 from Paragon levels. That means that a regular character will get 4 (5 for human) feats in its first 10 levels. I don't know whether are at 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th level, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Please try not to ridicule another poster before you have all of the facts about the game.

Actually, you are making an assumption that I believe to be incorrect. You can only retrain 1 feat per level, hence why you can only have 7 Paragon Feats at level 14. Once you hit paragon tier at 11, and then 12, 13, 14 you retrain a heroic feat into a paragon feat. This does not necessarily make any implications whatsoever as to how many feats are available at heroic tier, except that there are obviously at LEAST 4. Of course, you could be 100% correct, but that excerpt certainly doesn't set anything in stone as far as heroic feat numbers go. I'm still guessing it'll be 6 (1,2,4,6,8,10), but time will tell.

 

[ShockMeSane]

i think they are a little too nice, compared to the others shown. esp for classes which dont have the prof. thats 4 feats from 3.5 in one.

admittedly, im basing that on very little info.

You have to take into consideration that characters are generally making only 1 attack per round in 4E. That alone makes +2 damage significantly less valuable, not even taking into account higher hp totals across the board.

 

[Campbell]

Banning material you don't want to see in your game is cool by me. What isn't cool is allowing that material and then turning around and using the game world to make using that material a miserable experience for players.

 

[Spatula]

This really cuts to the issue for me. As someone who is a player, not a DM, I have grown sick and tired of DMs who act like us players are serving them, like we are somehow enabling their own fantasy world, and we are beholden to their every wish. Yeah, that's pretty cool for the DM, I will admit. I have helped DMs past in creating worlds because it is fun. But that really hurts us players. We play the game to have fun. We play the game to try new things and play a fantasy character. Limiting our choices for the purpose of your own preconcieved notions is doing a disservice to us, and is even doing a disservice to you. Are you implying that your mind is SO limited and boxed in you can't fit within the confines of society some dragonpeople or demonpeople? Why do you insult your own creativity and vision in such a way?

And really, you just "don't like it"? How do you think WE feel about getting our creative jusices flowing on a character concept and you say "No, not in my world". Is our creative choices really so devalued in comparison to yours? Are we your pawns in your intellectual masturbation, or do we have the right to have fun?

A) It's a collaborative game. If the players and the DM aren't on the same page or aren't willing to meet each other halfway, no one is going to have any fun.

B) DMing is work. It's rewarding, but it's still a lot of effort running a game. If you're not willing to DM, you're not really in a position to criticize IMO. Go run your own game if you don't like it (with people who are on the same page as you, see point A).

C) Everyone has a point where their versimilitude snaps. If you prefer "low-weirdness" then stuff like dragonborn goes past that point for you. For others it's no big deal, but at some point they too will draw the line. "What do you mean I can't play a space marine with power armor and rocket launcher, who crash landed on this backwater fantasy world when seperated from his company by evil space-elves? Stop making me a pawn in your intellectual masturbation!!!"

 

[Ahglock]

Not impressed not depressed. My only thought is how will they balance the classes with 2 bonus stats vs the one. Even if the one is floating its no where near as good as 2 +2s.

Lets say player X wants to be a mighty warrior, and wants to be big and strong.

I'll play a Human and put by floaty stat bonus into strength.

or

I'll play a dragonborn get +2 to strength and +2 to charisma or whatever.

Dragonborn is at a clear advantage here, will the other racial benefits of the human make up for there lacking in the attribute department. ( I'm kind of curious if any races other abilites will stack up against the dragonborns. A breath weapon is fairly slick, getting natural flight at higher levels is slick as well.)

This is especially true when the 2nd stat bonus is a kind of universal benefit stat. Eladrin seem to be at a kind of suck point in that both of there +2 to stats are the reflex defense booster, but at least there are some skill benefits. But lets say you are a Elf cleric, you get your fancy +2 wisdom, but also gain a +2 dex and who doensn't like a +1 to reflex saves.

 

[Ondo]

Not impressed not depressed. My only thought is how will they balance the classes with 2 bonus stats vs the one. Even if the one is floating its no where near as good as 2 +2s.

Based on the D&D XP pre-generated characters, it looks like Humans get +1 to all defenses.