Excerpt: Swarms

[Stalker0]

Not true. Read it again. The aura isn't one simultaneous attack hitting everyone in range, it's a series of distinct attacks, each one occurring at the start of the turn of whoever's being attacked. And it's not clear that the swarm even has the option to not execute that attack; which means the best way to take on swarms might be with a party of 5 paladins.

I'll concede that point then. Against 5 paladins, it then comes down to attrition. I hit the paladin for massive damage, it gets mark damage on me, and use lay on hands to heal himself back. I think a group of paladins would have a problem if the swarm got grouped and were able to hit multiple paladins with their aura. If the swarm hits 2 dropped paladins and is taking 6-8 damage teh swarm comes out ahead. But paladins have higher fort saves too. I think that would be an interesting fight.

 

[Rechan]

I'll concede that point then. Against 5 paladins, it then comes down to attrition.

Except that a single monster is marked by the last mark placed on it; you could have 50 paladins, but the swarm would only be marked by one guy at a time.

 

[Stalker0]

Except that a single monster is marked by the last mark placed on it; you could have 50 paladins, but the swarm would only be marked by one guy at a time.

That's why you 5 paladins each mark 1 swarms. 5 paladins, 5 swarms, all of them marked.

 

[Nytmare]

Exsanguinate is the new defenestrate.

 

[Rechan]

Exsanguinate is the new defenestrate.

Defenestrate will never be... defenestrated.

 

[The_Fan]

*puts on necroposter's robes*

Arise, foul post, ARISE!

Anyway, having seen the books myself, I think that the largest problem with the drakes is not a problem at all: Auras do not stack, so if two drake swarms are adjacent to the target, you only roll the best attack roll between them.

Removes SOME of their broken.

 

[bryantsonnier]

One question that springs to mind. Why aren't Minions swarms? That would cut down on the paperwork a bit. Instead of keeping count of 10 guys with 1 or 5 hit points (or whatever), they are counted as one creature for combat purposes. As exception based design seems to be in, it would be easy to give each 'minion swarm' rules relating to their make-up. Goblin swarms, zombie swarms, etc.

Not saying it's better or worse - just that this could have been an alternative route taken to simulate larger groups of weak monsters. I wonder if it was considered at all.

thought you might like this very much on the same lines.

http://trollitc.com/2010/09/mass-combat-with-dd-4e-formations-as-swarms/

Mass Combat with D&D 4e ? The War at Large|Troll in the Corner

As far as minions eh there really isn't enough to constitute swarm because most battles take place on a scale of 20x20 squares and thats on the high side, being swarmed by a 4x4 square of zombies would probably constitue 8 twelve zombies and now they're forced to act as a unit and not individual. ( you could have zombie minions with a "zombie horde" effect that when adjacent to three or more zombies gain Aura 1 for like 5 damage or basic attack)

 

[twilsemail]

Are there any clerics in the house? We need some Turn Undead before the Thread-Zombie bites someone...

 

[ThirdWizard]

This is why I like the "Go to first new post" button.

 

[Aegeri]

The greatest thing about this thread is that people within a handful of posts who hadn't played 4E, correctly figured out the needlefang drake swarm was utterly brutal on just looking at it. Heck, even now with 2 years of player crunch it would still be bloody ridiculous. Of course monster vault beat it with a stick into line (it may have even been errata'ed too).

Now that deserves an achievement.