Excerpt: the quest's the thing

[MindWanderer]

The thing that's interesting, although it isn't new news, is that you're encouraged to "assign" quests to get your players to do certain things. For instance, I was in an RPGA game recently where we went into the dungeon and by chance went straight to the plot-based goal. We didn't explore the rest of the dungeon and missed out on XP and loot.

Now there's a way to discourage that kind of behavior. The DM can assign a quest bonus for clearing out each dungeon, or he can drop a minor quest hint in down ("an orc stole my baby's rattle!") to make them stick around longer.

Is that a good thing? I'm not sure. It wastes less of the DM's prep time, but it also railroads. I bet few players will say "screw the quest reward, we'll go do something else." That constrains their actions considerably.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

Railroading is never a bad thing, unless you're dumb enough to let your players know they're being railroaded. If I spend X amount of time working on a dungeon and even account for some possible surprise choices form the group, I'm going to manipulate the adventure and fit it into the characters choices so they end up doing what I had planned anyway.

I've seen way too many groups just dink around in town not doing anything but a little roleplay waiting for the DM to drop something in their laps to deal with. I've seen way too many DM's wait for players to do something so they can drop something on the pc's heads. I hate leading pc's by the nose with obvious railroading and I hate kicking the dm in the ass to get them going as well. Obvious railroading just irks me. I prefer quiet manipulation of the encounters and story behind the scenes to get the pc's where they should be so it feels like the pc's are influencing the story, which they are in some ways. Stealing the show, ie leading the dm around by the nose, just feels selfish... like you're trying to steal the spotlight. Even if you're doing it just to get the game going.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Eh, didn't say much. Made the usual mentions of older settings (Honestly, can we have just *one* preview that tries to stand on it's own feet?) and then "Oh, and we totally have quest XP, which you already know."

 

[hong]

This is EXCELLENT stuff. This is exactly the sort of stuff that a novice DM or casual DM should see. If this is a primer for what the DMG contains, I'm all for it.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

This is EXCELLENT stuff. This is exactly the sort of stuff that a novice DM or casual DM should see. If this is a primer for what the DMG contains, I'm all for it.

And as someone who is going to be attempting to run a full campaign for the first time, it was a good read for me and bodes well for the rest of the DMG. Solid, sensible, DMing advice.

How long before someone brings up Quest Cards again, though?

 

[1of3]

I like that one.

Don’t be shy about letting the players know what their quests are. Give the players an obvious goal, possibly a known villain to go after, and a clear course to get to their destination. That avoids searching for the fun—aimless wandering, arguing about trivial choices, and staring across the table because the players don’t know what to do next. You can fiddle with using another secret villain or other less obvious courses, but one obvious path for adventure that is not wrong or fake should exist. You can count on the unpredictability of player actions to keep things interesting even in the simplest of adventure plots.

I especially agree to this. I have met a terrible number of GMs who somehow missed that. It seems the DMG will be a useful resource indeed.


One concern I have, though: How is offering quests supposed to work with active players who make up their own goals? I'm sure I can make that work but having it spelled out would have been reasonable.


Oh and... can I play that dwarven ambassador? Pleeaaase!

 

[arghost]

One concern I have, though: How is offering quests supposed to work with active players who make up their own goals? I'm sure I can make that work but having it spelled out would have been reasonable.

Simple; drop it on their heads. For example, while the group is in town and visiting the local merchant, have him mention something about stolen goods or raided caravans. This could lead to a quest with the party deciding to hunting the bandits or thieves, and making them feel like it was their choice.

As the article mentioned, place seeds around to attract the attention of the players and give them reasons to follow the quest.

And no, this is not railroading. They could just as easily decide to walk away, or rob the merchant themselves. It is only railroading if they don't have a choice in the matter, for example if all their attempts to do something different fails. Presenting a quest seed or dangling a carrot for them to follow is not railroading, it is plot-development .

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Simple; drop it on their heads. For example, while the group is in town and visiting the local merchant, have him mention something about stolen goods or raided caravans. This could lead to a quest with the party deciding to hunting the bandits or thieves, and making them feel like it was their choice.

As the article mentioned, place seeds around to attract the attention of the players and give them reasons to follow the quest.

And no, this is not railroading. They could just as easily decide to walk away, or rob the merchant themselves. It is only railroading if they don't have a choice in the matter, for example if all their attempts to do something different fails. Presenting a quest seed or dangling a carrot for them to follow is not railroading, it is plot-development .

In fact, this is how we usually do it in my group. The group hits a town, and different characters find different story/quest seeds. There's one big overarching plotline in mind, but just because you start at A and end at C doesn't mean you have to hit B en route. They can if they want, but there's so many other paths - some they can make themselves - that I perfer to keep open.

The wizard finds a cult is beginning to subvert apprentices in the academy he grew up in. The rogue hears about a particularly greedy merchant having more magic items then usual. The paladin is told by his order to hunt a nasty demon. The fighter gets a letter from his parents warning him that a small time rival from his old village is after him*.

They can choose any of these, or maybe more then just one of them. They'll be tied together - loosely, so that the VERY end is the only thing that remains the same - but the players still have that big word "CHOICE!" hovering over them that they love so much.

*I had a player who was just a standard fighter from a small village. He sent a letter and 10% of his cash home every time they finished a dungeon or large story arch. We ended up using it creatively - they had to run from the law, so they found some members of the extended family who gladly put them up and safe. Small details the players make for their characters can easily blossom into something much nicer. Just make sure you don't make the mistake of renaming all their family members "Plotty McGoingtobekidnapped." Reward the players for making backstories, don't punish them by filing those stories into the "Potential Blackmail" folder.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Interesting. Judging by responses, people prefer discussing the loot, instead talking about story-telling mechanics? Maybe D&D is after all just about killing people and taking their stuff...

Okay, this article didn't have that much meat.

The intro explains the typical "problems" with quest rewards (namely: There were never clear guidelines, despite the idea being obvious and commonly used by everyone).
Looks good to me...

I really like this piece of art in the preview.

I like it to. It's also interesting how it reflects the 4E art style. The Dwarf for example looks very "blocky".

But I think I want to play the guy on the right...

 

[vagabundo]

I like the advice and really really could have used this when I was younger. However I figured a lot of this stuff out with more experience as a DM; my poor players have gone through a lot of fads and experiments.

The more I find out about 4e DMG the more it seems they have codified my playstyle and filled in a few holes along the way.