Excerpt: The Warlord

[BradfordFerguson]

Cool thanks folks, that still leaves us forced to invest heavily in STR for the attack to hit/land, leaving us with less of a INT/CHA bonus to have the side benefit from the attack.

So my scale well comment may not apply. I think folks are reading a negative mood to my original reply. I'm simply pointing out what I notice. The player WILL have a tough decision as far as allocating stats. That isn't necessarily a good/bad thing.

 

[Stalker0]

Here are some sample monsters and their ACs.

We'll assume a starting Str of 16 and with increases we'll say at 11th and 14th level (the first two were for Cha/Int), and a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 ever four levels (being conservative I believe).

Boneshard Skeleton (level 5): AC 17 / Warlord +6 (11+)
Gnoll Huntmaster (level 5): AC 19 / Warlord +6 (13+)
Gnoll Clawfighter (level 6): AC 20 / Warlord +7 (13+)
Bugbear Headreaver (level 7): AC 20 / Warlord +7 (13+)
Gnoll Demonic Scourge (level 8): AC 20 / Warlord +9 (11+)
Gargoyle (level 9): AC 24 / Warlord +9 (15+)
Chuul (level 10): AC 27 / Warlord +10 (17+)
Boneclaw (level 14): AC 30 / Warlord +14 (16+)
Bodak Reaver (level 18): AC 31 / Warlord +16 (15+)
War Devil (level 22): AC 35 / Warlord +20 (15+)

Looks like our Warlord might really want to invest in Weapon Focus or something.

It looks like your forgetting the bonus for weapon proficiency. At 5th level the warlord will likely have:

+2 (level) + 2 (weapon prof) + 3 (str) + 1 (magic weapon) = +8

 

[Storm-Bringer]

I could have lived with Warleader as well. Then again, I've been reading Steven Erikson of late, and the idea of Warleader is just frikkin cool.

I gotta go with John Snow on this one. While specifically a cleric may not have been required, you pretty much had to have something that did the job just as well - Favored Soul, etc. A group without any divine spells died. End of story.

And, try playing beyond about 13th level without access to Heal spells.

But, that hasn't been solved, it has just been re-distributed.

If the complaint is that hit points are lost too easily or quickly, having more or getting them back more frequently is only a patch over the problem.

 

[Cadfan]

I doubt the game was designed such that attacking with strength versus AC automatically fails at high levels.

 

[small pumpkin man]

The Warlord is a Str based class, Cha/Int are secondary abilities, there's no reason for the Warlod's atacks to be more than two, maybe three points behind the fighter, and often they'll only be the one point behind that Fighters get from their class.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Cool thanks folks, that still leaves us forced to invest heavily in STR for the attack to hit/land, leaving us with less of a INT/CHA bonus to have the side benefit from the attack.

So my scale well comment may not apply. I think folks are reading a negative mood to my original reply. I'm simply pointing out what I notice. The player WILL have a tough decision as far as allocating stats. That isn't necessarily a good/bad thing.

I really got more the impression you just didn't know.

I agree - the Warlord will have to spend some of his resources in strength. But that fits the archetype, I think (at least for Fantasy). It appears as if most classes rely on 1 primary and 2 secondary attributes. The secondary attributes have the advantage that you can focus on one of them (especially if you follow the advice for class builds.) The Rogue was similar, he needed Dex as primary and Cha and Str as secondary.

 

[DandD]

But, that hasn't been solved, it has just been re-distributed.

If the complaint is that hit points are lost too easily or quickly, having more or getting them back more frequently is only a patch over the problem.

The complaints before was that there was absolutely no way to restore hitpoints without any divine magic at all safe for some measly hp-recovery after an extended rest, before you had to go on. Now that you can regain hitpoints after a battle withtout the needs of a dedicated healer class, or get them full back after an extended rest, there isn't the absolute impetous to have dedicated healers anymore. They'll still give an advantage especially in combat, but they don't have to be reduced to only that role. That's why it isn't a patch, but a real fix.

 

[Storm-Bringer]

The complaints before was that there was absolutely no way to restore hitpoints without any divine magic at all safe for some measly hp-recovery after an extended rest, before you had to go on. Now that you can regain hitpoints after a battle withtout the needs of a dedicated healer class, or get them full back after an extended rest, there isn't the absolute impetous to have dedicated healers anymore. They'll still give an advantage especially in combat, but they don't have to be reduced to only that role. That's why it isn't a patch, but a real fix.

But you do have healers, perhaps not 'dedicated', but nonetheless, you still have the Paladin, Warlord and Cleric, plus individual healing surges. It will only postpone the problem. A bunch of bad rolls in the first couple of combats for the day, and without a 'healer', you are right back to your original issue.

The problem you are discussing isn't 'not enough healing', the problem you are discussing is 'precipitous hit point loss'. Any solution involving 'healing', either the frequency or the potency, is a patch on the underlying problem.

 

[kilpatds]

Here are some sample monsters and their ACs.

We'll assume a starting Str of 16 and with increases we'll say at 11th and 14th level (the first two were for Cha/Int), and a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 ever four levels (being conservative I believe).

I'm currently expecting the stat improvements to be more like SAGAs: two different stats at each point, so that you can increase your primary stat each time.

Also, as someone else mentioned, there's the static proficiency bonus. Assuming +2:

Boneshard Skeleton (level 5): AC 17 / Warlord +8 (9+)
Gnoll Huntmaster (level 5): AC 19 / Warlord +8 (11+)
Gnoll Clawfighter (level 6): AC 20 / Warlord +9 (11+)
Bugbear Headreaver (level 7): AC 20 / Warlord +9 (11+)
Gnoll Demonic Scourge (level 8): AC 20 / Warlord +12 (8+)
Gargoyle (level 9): AC 24 / Warlord +12 (12+)
Chuul (level 10): AC 27 / Warlord +13 (14+)
Boneclaw (level 14): AC 30 / Warlord +16 (14+)
Bodak Reaver (level 18): AC 31 / Warlord +20 (11+)
War Devil (level 22): AC 35 / Warlord +23 (12+)

Which also is not really fully scaling, but is pretty close. If you add in leader bufs, that probably scales better.

If I add in a second stat bonus, on the theory that some leader will give you his second stat (14, +2 per 8 levels), then it looks like this:

Boneshard Skeleton (level 5): AC 17 / Warlord +10 (7+)
Gnoll Huntmaster (level 5): AC 19 / Warlord +10 (9+)
Gnoll Clawfighter (level 6): AC 20 / Warlord +11 (9+)
Bugbear Headreaver (level 7): AC 20 / Warlord +11 (9+)
Gnoll Demonic Scourge (level 8): AC 20 / Warlord +15 (5+)
Gargoyle (level 9): AC 24 / Warlord +15 (9+)
Chuul (level 10): AC 27 / Warlord +16 (11+)
Boneclaw (level 14): AC 30 / Warlord +19 (11+)
Bodak Reaver (level 18): AC 31 / Warlord +24 (7+)
War Devil (level 22): AC 35 / Warlord +27 (8+)

Which scales very well. And gives generally pleasing numbers. The only thing I see is that the every 8 levels becomes jumpy, from the +1 weapon, +2 stats, +1 level all hitting at the same time.

 

[DandD]

But you do have healers, perhaps not 'dedicated', but nonetheless, you still have the Paladin, Warlord and Cleric, plus individual healing surges. It will only postpone the problem. A bunch of bad rolls in the first couple of combats for the day, and without a 'healer', you are right back to your original issue.

A bunch of bad rolls in the first couple of combats always puts you in the worst shape possible, healer or not.

The problem you are discussing isn't 'not enough healing', the problem you are discussing is 'precipitous hit point loss'. Any solution involving 'healing', either the frequency or the potency, is a patch on the underlying problem.

Nope, it isn't, because hitpoints are the most valuable ressource in this game. And the problem before was that only the dedicated healers could generate that valuable thing for the amount you lost. If they couldn't do it anymore, nobody was going to continue at all.

Now, everybody can generate hitpoints, some classes just do it a little better than the others, but they don't have a complete monopol over it. And the formerly dedicated healer classes can now begin to contribute in other ways instead of only creating more and more hitpoints to refil those who have been lost.