Excerpts: Angels

[Phaezen]

Angel of Valor - Legionnaires

This intrigues me,

Angel of Valor - Level 8 Soldier

But in the Angel of Vengeance suggested encounter we find:

5 angel of valor legionnaires (level 21 minion)

Here is where fact ends and speculation begins:

This would suggest that legionnaire is a template to turn a heroic level creature into an epic level minion, this possible explains the entertainingly named legion devil legionnaires that the pit fiend is so fond of blowing up (note that the types of the legion devils are not mentioned in the pit fiend article, just thier level - 21)

Phaezen

 

[hong]

What I also don't get is that Angels are resistant to "radiant damage" - that's the kind of damage Paladins do, right? If so, isn't there some connection between radiant and good?

I think they totally missed the boat here.

Radiant means "sourced from the Astral Dominions [ie, outer planes]". It doesn't have connotations of good, holy, saintly, etc.

 

[AverageCitizen]

The fact that it's such an incredibly simplistic concept does not necesarily mean it's good storytelling. In fact often more complicated things make for better stories.

I think you're missing my point. I'm saying I have personally formed an opinion that it is lame.

So that begs the question: Why did they make the change?

And the only answer I can come up with is to make the Angels more "useful" to the game. (i.e, have them come up more in fights.) They said themselves, no one ever fights them. I don't think I ever directly involved one in a campaign, so I understand the problem of wasting space.

However, if I did use them in a setting it would be as wordly avatars engaged in an ancient struggle of good vs. evil. I don't think I'm alone in that, and most likely a strong majority of people implementing angels or devils or demons as a major setting element will be thinking along the same line. It's a classic concept, and it provides excellent backdrop for an adventure.

So when they come up with this... convoluted readjustment of what used to be the classic manifestation of the battle between good and evil, in favor of efficiency in game design publishing, I get annoyed. I think that this change was a poor decision. If its core I think it should be classic. Save the groundbreaking cosmologies for a specific setting.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

What I also don't get is that Angels are resistant to "radiant damage" - that's the kind of damage Paladins do, right? If so, isn't there some connection between radiant and good?

I think they totally missed the boat here.

Radiant is energy from the Astral Sea.

 

[DonAdam]

We decided that every god needed to have servants, and making angels those servants seemed the logical step.

Cool.

The word “angel” means “messenger”—why couldn’t one bring a message of war, or pain, or vengeance, as well as those of hope or protection? (And, of course, snuggles.)

Sweet. Angelic power keeping you from squeezing the Charmin.

all angels are vaguely humanoid in form, with masculine or feminine features and lower bodies that trail off into flowing energy.

BLEH.

I know, I know, I can change it in my game. But it doesn't make the pictures any less dumb.

 

[AllisterH]

What I also don't get is that Angels are resistant to "radiant damage" - that's the kind of damage Paladins do, right? If so, isn't there some connection between radiant and good?

I think they totally missed the boat here.

I thought paladins were allowed to serve evil gods now? Radiant I think no loner is automatically tied to good. It's tied to being DIVINE thus even a cleric of Bane does Radiant damage.

There's no holy and unholy anymore.

Necrotics is tied to the shadowfell but it isn't inherently evil anymore. Just strongly associated with it thus you can have say the Archlich doing necrotic damage and also the Undying Elven court doing necrotic damage even though necrotic is automatically seen by many as evil even though the two examples are not EVIL per se.

 

[DandD]

What I also don't get is that Angels are resistant to "radiant damage" - that's the kind of damage Paladins do, right? If so, isn't there some connection between radiant and good?

Not necessarily. Radiant might simply mean light-energy, or divine. It is said that Paladins can now also serve evil gods (or something like that. Talk about a Paladin of Asmodeus run around).

 

[Belorin]

I like the angels, just not all that impressed with the new origin, mercenary beings and such.
I'll house rule that, maybe the angels came into being at the deities need, but retained their own identity, Valor, Vengence, War, etc.

Bel

 

[AverageCitizen]

I'm in favor. This allows the angels to be used in a wider variety of roles. You can still have your good holy nice angels fighting against demons. Pelor's angels are likely like this. But you can also have an evil priest summon an angel of death to slaughter an enemy's kingdom-- your own-- and you need to stop it. For a dramatic twist, possibly by summoning a devil and making a bargain, which will go wrong afterwards...

The possibilities have not been reduced. They've been expanded. You can still use angels EXACTLY the same way you have in the past. But now, they offer clearer opportunities to be used elsewise. And yes, you could have always used angels like this, but the flavor given and the rules highly suggested against it. Now, the rules and flavor are far clearer about allowing wider uses.

YES. THIS IS GOOD.

I get what you're saying, I really do. And I almost agree with you. But the problem is that the angels, at least the ones we've seen, are so unaligned that they look almost identical. I think that's what really bothers me about trying to use the new angels in a classic role.

Maybe the bad angels will be completely different. I guess we'll see.

Any DM worth his dice can make it work, I am well aware, but its just more work for me. Sometimes it feels like homework stacking up, you know?

 

[FireLance]

What I also don't get is that Angels are resistant to "radiant damage" - that's the kind of damage Paladins do, right? If so, isn't there some connection between radiant and good?

I take it you didn't get the memo about evil paladins.

Radiant means "sourced from the Astral Dominions [ie, outer planes]". It doesn't have connotations of good, holy, saintly, etc.

Unless you want it to, of course.

(Really, it isn't even all that difficult. Make all the gods represent the best and noblest aspects of their respective portfolios, and cut out those that you can't put a good-aligned spin on. Now the Astral Dominions are all good-aligned, and all clerics, paladins and angels are servants of good.)