Yeah, they'd die of fright or it would force them to flee (which is also a way for to get 0 hp minions out of the game). Is it any more ludicrous a death throe attack than the dissolving in a pool of acid, turning to stone, or exploding?
Excerpts: Draconomicon: Metallic Dragons: Draconians
- Thread starter NMcCoy
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Yeah, they'd die of fright or it would force them to flee (which is also a way for to get 0 hp minions out of the game). Is it any more ludicrous a death throe attack than the dissolving in a pool of acid, turning to stone, or exploding?
Yes, it is. Because it does damage.
Phaezen
Adventurer
D&D has a long history of powerful fear effects causing damage, for example the Phantasmal Killer spell, amongst others. Hitpoints are a somewhat abstract concept and include willingness and capability to fight. A minion "killed" by a fear effect like this could be removed by passing out or fleeing the battle, and it no stretch to say that extreme fear can cause a heart attack.
For what its worth I have seen otherwise competent people reduced to useless wrecks by fear.
the Jester
Legend
Absolutely, but only because I don't have to work up the stats myself.
I have used draconians off and on for my entire gaming career, and never played more than a few DL games. Draconians are, imho, one of the best aspects of DL (along with a few other fantastic monsters).
thatdarnedbob
First Post
Do you follow the current abstraction that says hit points are a combination of stamina, composure, reflexes, and a bit of luck plus a few fatal hits, or do you see hit points only as chunks of bleeding wounds? Because the death throes doing damage makes sense under the first one, which has been the standard for a long time.
Obryn
Hero
I think you're (again) ignoring several main factors in 4e. You've done the same thing before, but here goes....
(1) 4e's rules aren't meant to model what happens when two NPCs fight each other. You're running into a silly situation because you were pushing for a silly situation. (Like in 3.5, the good, old fashioned Bat vs. Swarm of Flies debate.)
(2) HPs in 4e aren't just physical damage, and what happens when a monster hits 0 HP is situational. It could be they surrender. It could be you knock them unconscious. It could be they run in fear. So even in this case, the human minion might have just run off, terrified - or been stunned into temporary oblivion from the shock.
(3) Minions are only minions because they are fighting the PCs. There are no free-range minions who die when a dog bites them.
-O
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Somebody "pretending" the definition of hp is different could be intentional or indeed severe ignorance of every version of D&D ...and is something you will find glaring in some peoples war banner sigs. Most people certainly wouldnt want to include that level of apparent misunderstanding with every post. Does anybody have the page numbers in all editions or should we give up on the offender?
Obryn
Hero
That's a debate I don't think is worthwhile pursuing. IMO, all the arguments have been made already.
Whether or not it's how HPs have always been, it's pretty clear that's how they are right now, in 4e. And that's the important thing when we're talking about a 4e monster dealing psychic damage.
-O
Just strange that all other shock moments, being attacked by undead you previously know, seeing a abbaration, a group member being killed, etc. don't do psychic damage but this one does even when you made the knowledge check and know whats going on.
Too bad that WotC felt it neccessary to add damage where it doesn't make sense just to add a combat effect.
I am a bit torn about their existance. On one hand I still see the new dragons not as true metallics and a bad invention of WotC, on the other hand it keeps things consistend (as long as they are not added to DL if that setting comes out. There it would destroy any consistency the setting has left).
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