Excerpts: PHB2 - Heric Tier Feats

[Mr. Wilson]

Yeah it looks a lot like errata disguised as crunch. It might be better to house rule this to do as you said.

Oh, I agree, IMC I'll be houseruling the fix and then banning the feat.

 

[Minigiant]

In other news, melee training (as seen on flickr) will certainly benefit charisma-based paladins specifically and rogues in general. There was a thread recently about how MAD paladins are. This significantly alleviates those concerns for cha-paladins and gives Str-paladins further reason to hope for some love in Divine Power.

other benefit.
Backrow classes can side-defender if they have lots of healing surges *cough*warlocks*cough*bow rangers*sneeze*.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

We don't know the detail text. unless the bloggers who got the prerelease version want to comment.

Wasn't it going to only count on Encounter and Daily powers?

Some people in Japan got their copies early from Amazon.jp. In their thread on rpg.net they stated that the text goes:

Weapon Expertise
Benefit: Choose a weapon group. You gain +1 bonus to attack rolls with any weapon power you use with a weapon from that group. The bonus increases to +2 at 15th lvl and to +3 at 25th lvl.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon group.

 

[Branduil]

An untyped bonus? I look forward to that being errata'd within days.

 

[Cadfan]

No, it will stay untyped.

Its clearly intended as a feat that everyone takes (even the math impaired will realize they need to take it by epic tier). No point in having that if you can't stack other more interesting feats on top of it.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

ok maybe i'm just missing something cause i haven't played much 4e, but i don't see the big deal. It's a plus one to hit. even when it scales it's still only a plus three. Big whoop it's a scaling version of 3e weapon focus.

 

[Cadfan]

ok maybe i'm just missing something cause i haven't played much 4e, but i don't see the big deal. It's a plus one to hit. even when it scales it's still only a plus three. Big whoop it's a scaling version of 3e weapon focus.

Its not 4e specific.

Its just that +3 is a very, very big part of the 20 points on a d20's distribution.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Its not 4e specific.

Its just that +3 is a very, very big part of the 20 points on a d20's distribution.

ok, sorry if i'm comming off dense, but i still don't see why everyone would automatically want/have to take this. Seems like melee training is much more valuable.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

ok maybe i'm just missing something cause i haven't played much 4e, but i don't see the big deal. It's a plus one to hit. even when it scales it's still only a plus three. Big whoop it's a scaling version of 3e weapon focus.

Pluses to hit are a big deal in 4e. They are very hard to get. And because the math is so carefully made, they make a big deal. Say you have a +9 to hit at first level(20 STR fighter with a +3 prof weapon, say a fullblade). You are fighting an AC 16 monster. You do an average of 8.05 damage per round without the feat and 8.625 damage per round with the feat. It gives you more than half of the effect of Weapon Focus(the 4e version) on at-wills while also giving you a 5 percent extra chance of doing all the secondary effects of your powers.

If the math stays the same and you are hitting with 4w attacks at 30th level(and you still hit on a 7), then you do 29.4 damage per round without the feat and 35.7 damage per round with it. It gives you over double the effect of Weapon Focus at that level. While it also gives you a 15% extra chance of using your secondary effects of your powers, and not missing with encounters and dailies.

When you apply the bonus to attacks that hit multiple targets, it has even more effect.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

ok, sorry if i'm comming off dense, but i still don't see why everyone would automatically want/have to take this. Seems like melee training is much more valuable.

It IS more valuable if you are a non-STR based class who likes to go into melee and expects to make basic attacks on a regular basis. Which is very few classes(Paladin, Rogue, Swordmage, Avenger, Bard, some Rangers, and a small number of Warlocks). I'm certain it will be a popular feat as well. However, when you take Melee Training at 1st level, what are you taking at 2nd? The answer for a lot of people is going to be Weapon/Implement Expertise.