Excess XP and jumping more than one level at the time?

[Ashy]

Say Fred the Ranger is 10th level and he has just gained enough XP to move up to 11th. However, Fred decides instead that he'd rather take a couple of levels in cleric (say he's recently gotten religion). I KNOW what the rules say, but say I wanted to allow Fred to use some of his amassed XP to level up more than one level in cleric.

How would you go about house ruling it?

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Unless I'm completely stoned here, he's simply an 11th level character now. He can only take one level in cleric.

 

[Ashy]

Ok, let me see if I can explain:

Fred has 10,000 XP to burn (i.e. what he has gained progressing from 10th level to 11th level).

It only takes 3000 XP to go from a zero level cleric to a 3rd level cleric, right?

What if Fred wanted to use 3,000 of his amassed 10,000 XP to "instantly" become a 3rd level cleric?

 

[rowport]

Um... no. The XP table is for *character* level, not just *class* level. If he is a 10th level ranger, it would take him just as much XP to go to ranger10/cleric1 as going to ranger11.

If XP were class-based, you would see lots and lots of multiclassed characters with only 1 level of each class!

 

[Ashy]

Again, I KNOW what the book says, but when you look at it from a light of merely using the XP you have - does this make sense? I mean, why should it cost Fred ten times the amount to gain the level of cleric now than it would have if he had started out as a cleric instead of a ranger?

 

[S'mon]

You don't seem to understand that in 3e all the stuff that in 1e multiclassing didn't stack, does stack - like attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, hit points... 3 levels of Cleric is _always_ far better than 1 level of Fighter in 3e! Hence it would be really stupid to treat XP the way you suggest. **Unless** you houseruled that benefits from each class did not stack, ie return to 1e/2e multi or dual-classing. If you do that, sure, let Fred cast spells as a 3rd level Cleric, but he gets nothing else for his XP.

 

[Cintra]

It won't work that way. (Okay, unfair answer, since this is the "House Rules" forum.) What I mean is, under the Core rules, he'd have to take his 11th level as Cleric, and the BAB etc. progressions would stack (so no add to BAB, +2 to Will saves).

The only thing that comes close to what you're trying to do here is the Gestalt rules in Unearthed Arcana, where PCs take two character classes simultaneously throughout there careers, but the benefits don't stack. For example, a 10th level character who chooses Ranger and Cleric would have the BAB of the Ranger (because it's the better BAB), not the Ranger and Cleric BABs added together. Typically, a gestalt character is about the equivalent of two levels "better" than a regular character, but it isn't advisable to allow gestalt and regular characters in the same campaign, because the increased flexibility (and a bunch of oddities on how things work, like being able to have all good saves) makes them very different.

If you really wanted to allow this as a house rule, I'd say the "second progression" should cost a lot more than the normal starting character XPs, at least three times as much. And make certain that no same abilities stack (so he won't get the BAB or save bonuses from the lesser class, although if he takes enough levels of Cleric, eventually the Will save from the Cleric progression might take the place of the Ranger one).

But all things considered, I wouldn't recommend allowing this at all, because it will get really unbalanced and that can cause some friction between members of a group. I'd strongly recommend you just require him to take single levels of Cleric as per the Core rules instead.

OR, if others in the group are also tempted to take a secondary class, you could consider running a new campaign (or converting this campaign) to have all PCs be gestalt characters. You'll need to review those rules and the relevant recommendations/guidelines, and I strongly recommend, if you do this, having everyone start from 1st level so you can get a feel for the changes in what sorts of things challenge a Gestalt party.

 

[Ashy]

Thanks, Cintra - I don't have UA, but I may pick it up and check these rules out. I was also considering what you suggested, making each level cost a bit more and such... Thanks for the food for thought.