Exchanging feats and skills

[Bullgrit]

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

How about a similar rule for exchanging feats and skill points during a character's career?

For instance, I'm playing a paladin that I originally created as a diplomat, with Skill Focus (Diplomacy) and Negotiator feats (taken at 1st level). But through play in the campaign, this concept has really not worked out as I intended/planned/expected. As it turns out, my character would really be better served with some different feats. My PC is now 5th level, and I've really not used Diplomacy much since early 2nd level.

What if there was a general rule for feat selections and skill points like the one for sorcerer spells exchange? Say, every X levels, a character can swap out a feat chosen at X-y level for another feat that could have been taken at that level. (That is, you can't swap out a feat you chose at 1st level for Whirlwind Attack.)

I've heard of games where the campaign had occassional "free retro-fit" chances -- where the Players could freely retro-fit their characters, picking up feats and/or classes that they would have taken earlier, but the feat/class was not available (published) at that time. "Oh man, I wish I had known about this prestige class when I was 6th level. This so totally fits my character."

My questions, here: Have you ever participated in a "free retro-fit" chance? And what do you think of the concept of exchanging "old" feats/skills like a sorcerer exchanges lower-level spells?

Bullgrit

 

[Troll Wizard]

Hmm, not exactly what you want, but one of our DM allows you to go to a god (of time?) and ask for character resets, which you have pay xp for it. I am not sure of the terms, but something like:
100xp per skill point change
500xp per feat change

Aside from that I am not sure how you would "unlearn" one feat to change it to another feat, besides just saying its "magic" that does it. In truth I am not partial to sorcerer spell exchange rule myself.

 

[Quasqueton]

The computer, online RPG GuildWars has something like this: "refund points".

As you gain experience points, you gain refund points. Use a refund point to rearrange attribute ranks. Similar concept to what you're talking about.

Quasqueton

 

[lukelightning]

I've let players change feats and skills if they realized it was a poor choice and never really used the feat. It's like the "no-fault alignment change" rule: If you make a character of a certain alignment and then start playing the game, you might realize your concept of the character's personality doesn't match the alignment you chose...so "poof" you just change the alignment to something that matches it.

Similarly, if a player made a super sneaky rogue and took the the stealthy feat, and then upon playing realized he didn't really sneak around much, I'd let him swap the feat to something more in-line with the way he's playing his character.

This is, of course, easiest for feats/skills that the player never used; in any case I'd rather have players that are happy with their characters than worry about "oh my god you can't switch awareness for quick draw it will ruin my game!!!!"

 

[DonTadow]

I'm not sure if a mechanic is needed, just a soft hearted DM. I've had a couple of players in my campaign come to me sometime later and ask for feats or character changes to better suit the character and campaign. I usually come up with an interesting in game reason for it. The first character died and was resserected which gave mea reason to bring back the character "wrong". Another made a pact with a demon lord. The third has a god-dragon for a father and accepted his gift (she wanted to be a mage and had been a monk the entire campaign).

XP seems to always be a good consequence for it. for me I just have the players loose a level of XP. I don't do it all the time, but in those circumstances where its the only option to get the player more enjoyment out the campaign.

 

[Yair]

Changing skills? That's nothing. In my last game, our resident dwarf tank went to sleep one night with his axe by his side, and woke up next morning with his trusted battle-hammer...

I'm very generous with allowing changes in retrospect, although I draw the line with when the skill/feat in question seriously impacted the tale so far.
Although I like DonTadow's ideas. I'll use something like that if the issue of changing things fundumentally ever comes up.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Depends on the GM.

I generally don't allow it. Players should work with me before making a character that they want to play if they're not going to be happy that their rogue isn't doing well in an undead campaign for example.

Another GM allows a lot of changes as long as they don't effect the core of the player. Feat swaps, skill change,s etc..., as long as those skills/feats havent' been defining the character. For example, one player thought that the game would have a lot more need for diplomaacy, bluff, etc... and it's come up like once in eight game sessions so the GM was like, "Switch what you need from x, y, and z.

 

[lukelightning]

You see, it's a compromise. If a player wants to swap "WF: Greataxe" for "WF: Greatsword" I might allow it (assuming it is not just because he found a magic greatsword).

Otherwise the player can say "fine, I will retire this character and make up a new one that is almost exactly the same but has the feat I want."

 

[JoshWilhoyte]

And that's why I tool Psychic Reformation. Although in certain situations I'd just ask the DM to allow it.

 

[JoeGKushner]

You see, it's a compromise. If a player wants to swap "WF: Greataxe" for "WF: Greatsword" I might allow it (assuming it is not just because he found a magic greatsword).

Otherwise the player can say "fine, I will retire this character and make up a new one that is almost exactly the same but has the feat I want."

that latter part wouldn't work in my campaign.

I started the original characters off with HIGH stats (a little too high) so modified all future characters.

In addition, new players start 2 levels lower than the highest level player.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to change your character, but I'm not rewarding you for it in the middle of the game.