Exotic Double Weapons

[kreynolds]

Why take a standard double sword when you could have a double bastard sword?

Because a standard double sword only requires one EWP feat, while a double bastard sword would arguably require two EWP feats. Do I actually think that a double-bastard sword would be worth two EWP feats? Probably not. This isn't intended as a jab, but just to point something out.

 

[Pazu]

And what I was wondering about the exotic weapon feat was if taking the feat for a double-headed weapon gave you the ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting abilities when you used it, or if you needed all three feats to effectively use the weapon (which seems to be the case).

Hi!

Indeed, all three feats are needed.

But if you're playing in Rokugan, the Mantis Mercenary prestige class gains virtual Ambidexterity and TWF in light or no armor (like a ranger), but unlike the ranger, this also applies to double weapons.

Assuming this is at all relevant, of course.

-- Pazu

 

[Villano]

Because a standard double sword only requires one EWP feat, while a double bastard sword would arguably require two EWP feats. Do I actually think that a double-bastard sword would be worth two EWP feats? Probably not. This isn't intended as a jab, but just to point something out.

Or you could take Monkey Grip. It would result in a -2 attack penalty, but it could work.

 

[kreynolds]

Or you could take Monkey Grip. It would result in a -2 attack penalty, but it could work.

Either way, that's still two feats, technically three because you would need weapon focus in bastard swords to even qualify for Monkey Grip.

 

[Corwin]

Well, technically, the bastard sword or katana is really a martial weapon. You just need the exotic weapon feat for one-handed use.

Except that, by making it a double weapon, each end would effectively be weilded by one hand (i.e., it is treated as a two one-handed weapons with the off-hand considered light). That makes each application of this double katana exotic not martial.

But my point about comparing the shikomi-zue to the quarterstaff was in response to your comparing the two-bladed sword to the two-bladed katana (i.e., why take one weapon when you can take something which deals more damage?).

No, they are not similar comparisons as I've already pointed out in my last post. Because stepping up from longsword (to double sword) and bastard sword (to boudle katana) is a different situation entirely.

I could have just as easily asked why someone would choose a dwarven urgrosh (1d8/1d6) instead of an orc double axe (1d8/1d8)? Or heavy flail (1d10) instead of a greatsword (2d6)? Or even the bastard sword as a marial, 2-handed weapon (1d10) instead of the Greatsword?

But all of these choices have balancing factors within the rules. Your double katana does not.

Urgosh vs. Double Axe: The urgosh can be set to receive a charge.

Heavy Flail vs. Greatsword: The flail can make trip checks and has a bonus to disarm.

Bastard Sword (2-handed martial) vs. Greatsword: You can still weild it one-handed (albeit at a penalty) if need be. This is the only reason I can think of to take it and not also take the feat. But hey, it's your PC.

Or, if you have a +4 Dex, why you'd take Hide armor (+3 ac) instead of a chainshirt (+4 ac)?

How is this at all relevant?

Flavor, money, or just the player's personality all come into play when crafting a PC.

Exactly. And I never had a problem with "flavor". What I had a problem with was trying to use the "flavor" excuse to get away with taking something unbalanced (IMO).

I'm not meaning to pick a fight or quibble over minor points, but you see what my original point was (just because it can do more damage doesn't mean everyone will want one...Lord knows there have been people who've decided to go with Weapon Focus: Dagger! ).

Not fighters in plate armor. Rogues? Sure. You seem to be saying that, since not everyone will want to use this thing, it's balanced. Not true.

And besides, that double bastard sword would probably be damned expensive.

Beside the point.

I do understand concerns that a 1d10/1d10 weapon may be too powerful. But making it so expensive that you can't pick it up for several levels could help balance it out.

I disagree. Unless you plan on taking a few thousand on the base price, I don't see cost as a deterent. Do people pay the extra 300 to get a masterwork anything? Sure. Yet all they get is +1 to hit out of that 300. You want to get +1 to hit and +1 damage (effectively, by increasing from d8 to d10).

Although it's all pretty moot, actually, since being double-headed, it's no longer really a "katana" (just as a double-bladed sword really isn't a "sword", anymore).

Which is one of the reasons why I said it should use the normal double sword stats.

 

[Corwin]

Because a standard double sword only requires one EWP feat, while a double bastard sword would arguably require two EWP feats. Do I actually think that a double-bastard sword would be worth two EWP feats? Probably not. This isn't intended as a jab, but just to point something out.

Which is not only deep into house rule territory, but a bit awkward and silly, IMNSHO.

Having a "doubly exotic" weapon that requires taking the feat twice to use just doesn't sit right to me. There is no precedent and it feels wrong.

Edited because I quoted the wrong post

 

[Corwin]

Quickly, another point I forgot to mention.

Using Monkey Grip to weild the double weapon one-handed would result in negating the second head of the weapon. Double weapons even say as much in their description.

 

[kreynolds]

Which is not only deep into house rule territory, but a bit awkward and silly, IMNSHO.

This entire thread is into house rule territory.

Having a "doubly exotic" weapon that requires taking the feat twice to use just doesn't sit right to me. There is no precedent and it feels wrong.

Exactly. Which is why I said "probably not".

 

[Corwin]

This entire thread is into house rule territory.

Not if he heeded my words and simply made it a masterwork double sword and described it as having two katana blades.

Then there are no house rules involved at all.

 

[kreynolds]

LMAO