Expanded Psionics 3.5 - is double trouble back for rays?

[Kershek]

In 3.5, it seemed that they got rid of the "double trouble" that was in 3.0. In other words, two rolls needed to be made for a ranged touch attack (like a ray) to work - the ranged touch roll and then a saving throw by the opponent to negate some or all of the effects. It made things like Ray of Enfeeblement rather useless when you find out that, not only do you have to roll to hit your target, but the kind of creature on which you want to use it can negate it with its best saving throw.

Well, I was reading Dragon 317, and now it appears it is back for psionics, or at least for the particular spell they listed. Crystalstorm is a 3rd level power that is a 15 ft ray that requires a ranged touch attack to do slashing damage. However, the opponent can make a fortitude save to negate the additional Con damage inflicted.

Am I the only one that is loathe to see more of these "double trouble" attacks? Doesn't it seem contraditory to what 3.5 has done to reform this rule?

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, disintegrate has a save to reduce its effect. The save can act as a balance for a potentially broken effect.

 

[Plane Sailing]

However, the opponent can make a fortitude save to negate the additional Con damage inflicted.

Am I the only one that is loathe to see more of these "double trouble" attacks? Doesn't it seem contraditory to what 3.5 has done to reform this rule?

As RangerWickett said it still applies to disintegrate. The only case where it used to be really bad was the old flame arrow which had ranged touch and reflex save, enabling rogues and monks to avoid it fully once it had been hit.

A spell/power which did 1d4 CON damage without a save as a ranged touch would be much too powerful. The fact that this spell does its basic hp damage regardless and a Fort ST against the CON damage seems fine to me.

 

[Vecna]

Well, disintegrate has a save to reduce its effect. The save can act as a balance for a potentially broken effect.

Yes, the power in Dragon 317 does 1d4 CON damage, more if augmented.
So a Fortitude save is needed to balance it.

 

[tmaaas]

Yes, the power in Dragon 317 does 1d4 CON damage, more if augmented.
So a Fortitude save is needed to balance it.

When I first read the description, I considered the save necessary to keep the power from being broken. I'm still a little leery of the "+1d4 Con" per PP for augmentation. I was expecting a "+1 Con" instead, and was rather surprised.

 

[Staffan]

There are certain touch spells in 3.5e that also have "double trouble". The first that comes to mind is Chill Touch: 1d6 damage per hit, +1 point of Str damage if the target fails a Fort save.

 

[dream66_]

Crystalstorm

Darn, I was hoping there was some possiblity the revised would do away with all the nonsence.

 

[Vecna]

When I first read the description, I considered the save necessary to keep the power from being broken. I'm still a little leery of the "+1d4 Con" per PP for augmentation. I was expecting a "+1 Con" instead, and was rather surprised.

Of course is totally broken!
BrC sometimes let slip such things in his material and must give unofficial errata later.
Examples are the Sculpt Mind feat (1 psionic feat every 3 levels, changed to 5 levels) and Mindscape combat (Empathic Multiplier from bonus damage die to bonus damage +1)

 

[Staffan]

Of course is totally broken!
BrC sometimes let slip such things in his material and must give unofficial errata later.
Examples are the Sculpt Mind feat (1 psionic feat every 3 levels, changed to 5 levels) and Mindscape combat (Empathic Multiplier from bonus damage die to bonus damage +1)

As an aside, I think the +1/3/5 points of damage with powers was overcompensating. I turned it into +1/2/3 points of damage per die instead, to make it more usful at high levels.

I mean, when you're hitting someone with an 8th level Concussion-type power for 15d6, another 3 points of damage doesn't really matter. Another 30, now...