Expecting an Ambush

[irdeggman]

Have the PCs roll spot checks (versus hide checks) as normal, except allow them to take 10 since they are "actively" looking for trouble. Heck you could give them a circumstance bonus for each time they have rentered the room too, assuming they are doing something different each time in preparation.

A valid point was made as to how the ghosts know who is in the room and where they are when things start. I don't believe they have tremorsense or an ability to see through walls so it unless they are "waiting" for someone they should be likewise making checks. I'm having trouble figuring out what the trigger would be for them to come out and attack the party though, if they can't see or sense them ahead of time.

 

[Nifft]

No way. Otherwise obviously dangerous places become less dangerous than regular places.

"There's a dark alleyway beside you."
"Ooo! Let's walk into that. We're expecting an ambush."

What you can do:
- Prep spells to help you locate them before you enter the room. Detect undead is a solid start. Look for stuff that lets you see the Ethereal plane, too. Heck, detect evil should work. Got Paladin?
- Preemptive strike. Turn ethereal and kick them where they can't run away.
- Dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

No way. Otherwise obviously dangerous places become less dangerous than regular places.

Obvious dangerous places are less dangerous than secretly dangerous places.

A hallway with an open pit trap is clearly less dangerous than a hallway with a hidden pit trap.

A room known to have ghosts is less dangerous than a room that secretly has ghosts.

 

[Nifft]

Obvious dangerous places are less dangerous than secretly dangerous places.

A hallway with an open pit trap is clearly less dangerous than a hallway with a hidden pit trap.

A room known to have ghosts is less dangerous than a room that secretly has ghosts.

True. But only because you can avoid them or use your brains and class abilities to prepare for them.

If a bugbear shoves you into an open pit (via Bull Rush) you don't get any advantage over it vs. a bugbear who shoves you into a square containing a secret pit. All you can do is avoid standing next to the pit.

In this case, you can examine the room before you enter it, and try to Spot the ghosts with magic; or you can avoid the room entirely.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

True. But only because you can avoid them or use your brains and class abilities to prepare for them.

If I know something is there, it's easier to spot it. Because I know exactly what I am looking for.

I'd give a circumstance bonus to spot the ghosts, and I suspect most DMs would. I'd give the ghosts a circumstance bonus to spot the party too. If both parties make their check, then there is no surprise round.

Ghosts need to make a spot check to spot the party, just like the party needs to make a spot check to spot the ghosts. Only individuals who fail their spot check are surprised. That's the rules, in black in white. I can quote page and paragraph if you prefer.

 

[Nifft]

If I know something is there, it's easier to spot it. Because I know exactly what I am looking for.

Meh. If I know where I hid last time, I can hide somewhere else this time. That "what to look for" better be mechanically represented by some detect evil and detect undead spells.

Seriously, if you walk into a dark alley thinking that there are dudes hiding in the shadows, you don't get any particular advantage if there are actually dudes hiding in the shadows -- nor do you suffer any particular disadvantage if there are actually grell hovering in the mist above you.

I don't see why you should get a bonus for the one without ever suffering a penalty against the other.

I'd give a circumstance bonus to spot the ghosts, and I suspect most DMs would. I'd give the ghosts a circumstance bonus to spot the party too. If both parties make their check, then there is no surprise round.

Again, I dislike the idea of giving a bonus for making a bet when there's no penalty for losing the bet.

As to both sides getting a check and using the surprise rules: yes, of course.

Ghosts need to make a spot check to spot the party, just like the party needs to make a spot check to spot the ghosts. Only individuals who fail their spot check are surprised. That's the rules, in black in white. I can quote page and paragraph if you prefer.

There's really no need for that, is there?

Oh, are you just saying the party can use the information ("room may be dangerous") to know where they should attempt Hide & Move Silently checks? That is indeed a good idea. They should do that.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Darklone]

Seconding Mistwells point: The ghosts have no easy way to get out of the walls to attack the players since they don't necessarily see them first. Have the players sneak in there and hide.

 

[nittanytbone]

Sounds like a good time for a +2 circumstance bonus to the player's detection rolls (and potentially initiative).

 

[Vahktang]

Incorporeal creatures can sense when someone is in a square adjascent to the one they're in (when they're in a solid object)
MM, pg 310
So, stay away from the walls.

In other cases, memorize these spells from the spell compendium:

Ghost trap, all incorporeals become corpearl
Make Manifest, cause Ethereal, etc, to come onto prime material
Life's Grace, Immunity to many undead attack
Undead Bane Weapon

And wouldn't Dimensional Anchor prevent a ghost from becoming incorporal?

 

[azhrei_fje]

And something like magic circle would be pretty beneficial.

On the side of the ghosts, I always smirk when my players think in two dimensions -- I have my earth elementals drop on top of them by falling through the ceiling, or I put the elementals below the players and strike from underneath.

For some reason, players seem to think of the world as flat. Maybe it's the battlemats that do that?