D&D General Experience Matters - The benefits of XP

[payn]

It is really weird seeing experience both touted as 'free will' but also a tool for operant conditioning.

 

[iserith]

It is really weird seeing experience both touted as 'free will' but also a tool for operant conditioning.

It doesn't really have anything to do with "free will" in my view. That was brought up by you in one post upthread, and someone else later as a way to describe what they see as a difference between milestone XP and standard XP.

It does have an effect on what decisions players make in my experience, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Lots of factors go into their decision making and this is just one. Do we fight the monster along our path for XP or go the long way to avoid it because we're low on resources? Do we pursue this quest worth a small amount of milestone XP or this other, more dangerous one that has a bigger payoff?

 

[Clint_L]

And that is where people start to apply it so broadly it loses all meaning to the point of some really ridiculous definitions that were recently thrown around in another thread. It's not a rail - it's a plot. It's railroading - which is by definition bad - when the players are seemingly offered a false choice to follow the plot or not follow the plot and their "choice" leads them always back to the plot. If instead I say, this adventure involves a specific plot, the game we're playing involves following said plot, you get XP or levels by staying on it (milestone XP or story-based advancement, respectively), and you agree, then there's no railroading going on where following the plot is concerned.

No. That term has been in common usage in a non-pejorative sense for years in gaming. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You are conflating it with the idiom “to railroad,” or to frame or set up someone. They are not the same thing. When a game is on a rail it means that the plot is largely predetermined. It is derived from amusement park rail shooters, then FPS video games where the game largely controlled movement, then was used more broadly in games such as World of Warcraft for tightly scripted quest lines, and similarly in TTRPGs.

 

[iserith]

No. That term has been in common usage in a non-pejorative sense for years in gaming. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Oh, I'm aware of its use. I just find it leads to all sorts of confusion. Look no further than these forums to see it in action. This very thread even. Definitions should serve to clarify in my view, not obfuscate.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It doesn't really have anything to do with "free will" in my view. That was brought up by you in one post upthread

I think you'll find that it was not.

 

[iserith]

I think you'll find that it was not.

You appear to reference that here, where you put XP and free will in opposition ("vs") in some sense.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You appear to reference that here, where you put XP and free will in opposition ("vs") in some sense.

That was talking about how players being able to get XP independently means it's not actually a controllable process. I should have said 'vis a vis', not 'vs'. I wasn't suggesting it was opposed to it. How a lot of people try to use it to 'train' players however...

 

[iserith]

That was talking about how players being able to get XP independently means it's not actually a controllable process.

How do players "get XP independently" when, per the rules, the DM is the one who decides how and when XP is earned?

How a lot of people try to use it to 'train' players however...

Which people are those? What are they training them to do?

 

[Vaalingrade]

How do players "get XP independently" when, per the rules, the DM is the one who decides how and when XP is earned?

By... doing things the DM didn't expect? I feel like we've already been over this. Not being snarky, we did, right?

Which people are those? What are they training them to do?

Look at all the talk of incentivizing and encouraging certain behaviors. That's operant conditioning. That's training.

 

[iserith]

By... doing things the DM didn't expect? I feel like we've already been over this. Not being snarky, we did, right?

I'm not sure I understand. Can you explain what you mean?

Look at all the talk of incentivizing and encouraging certain behaviors. That's operant conditioning. That's training.

I think rather it's just doing what the rules say to do when playing the game. It has the add-on effect of incentivizing players to do certain things, such as boldly confronting deadly perils in worlds of swords and sorcery, which in turn is (hopefully) fun and creates an exciting, memorable story. That is what the game is about. If the DM wants to deviate from that model and give out XP for other things, they can. Say the DM wants to encourage the players to have their characters sit around taverns posturing and opining on their secret 8-page backstories, they can do worse than give them XP when they do that. (Inspiration is also a fine choice.)

That said, while it incentivizes them to do certain things, there are often competing priorities. Resource limitations or concerns, personal characteristics, and many other things can come into play when deciding what to do. This is what in my experience makes the decision making process meaningful and engaging.