Experience with Jedi

[kenobi65]

Couple of other thoughts on Stun:

- Keep in mind that blasters have a stun range of only 4m. So, if you want to shoot on stun, you need to be on top of your opponent.

- Living Force uses a house rule on stun that works a little better:
-- If you make your save, you suffer no effect at all
-- If you miss your save, you're unconscious for 1d4+1 rounds

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Tales of the Jedi era has the advantage of using "lasers" and "wave weapons" and "blast rifles" as opposed to blasters.

The only real difference I can see is ... no stun setting. Mwa hahahahaha.

--fje

 

[drothgery]

The combination of using a force-point with Power attack is also over-powered,

Actually, for mid to high-level Jedi, Power Attacking anything you have a chance of missing (other than by rolling a 1 to hit) is a bad idea. For each point of Power Attack, you're reducing your chance to hit by 5%, and increasing your average damage by less than 5% (assuming your average damage is above 20, which is pretty easy to get to). If you figure in iterative attacks, Power Attack gets even worse. Incidentally, this is why the 2-for-1 two-handed power attack showed up in D&D 3.5; without it, Power Attack isn't much use for the high damage-dealing types you'd expect to take it.

So the only way a rational Jedi is going to use Power Attack is as a desperation tactic (and therefore in conjunction with a Force Point) or against something that's got a ton of VPs, but is easy to hit.

 

[swrushing]

simply on the principle that roleplaying classes should create a situation in which all types of characters can have fun. While I personally feel that all things Jedi lie at the heart of the Star Wars stories, it's not the same for everyone. Jedi should not be supermen in a roleplaying game.

Well, these may be contradicting the genre.

In genre, the jedi are NOT balanced vs the other guys, not even close. So it might be that you can play a scifi genre rpg with enough balance and some things you name "jedi", but it might be wholly inappropriate to call this a star wars game.

IMX the most important thing to remember is that "balance" on paper is meaningless. Balance comes from "what can i do" which is "on paper" so to speak vs "what do we need doing" which is the story element the Gm provides.

to run a balanced game, you don't really need a lot of precision on paper balance at all, you just need sufficient individual strengths and weaknesses that you can provide scenarios that put everyone on the top of the "what we need doing I AM THE ONE WHO CAN DO!!!" hill evenly enough. if one guy is a jedi combat badmamajamma and another is a hot pilot nd another is a science geek from heck then your scripting will determine how evenly each of them is "the guy" and thus determine "how balanced" the campaign is.

So, especially in a genre as imbalanced as star wars, focus more on character individuality and scripting and worry less about "class balance" or any "on paper" balance.

You want "balanceable by script/challenge" not "balanced on paper."

All this of course, IMO.

Oh and while i did not play in it, my friend who played D20 Sw said he thought the jedi rules (IIRC in both editions) were way out of whack balance wise (and we had a similar discussion as this.)

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

In genre, the jedi are NOT balanced vs the other guys, not even close. So it might be that you can play a scifi genre rpg with enough balance and some things you name "jedi", but it might be wholly inappropriate to call this a star wars game.

I don't really like that excuse, myself. I think what we see in the movies are Jedi battling hordes and hordes of mooks and cronies. Of course they look unstoppable, deflecting every blaster shot, ripping droids apart with telekinesis, and generally kicking ass. But look at when they come up against equal or greater challenges: Maul, Vader, Dooku, or Jango Fett. Jedi do not always win.

A 7th level Jedi vs. a 7th level Soldier? I'd say that has the potential to be equal (whether it actually is or not is something else we've been discussing). Depending on tactics, geography, and equipment this fight could go both ways.

 

[The_Universe]

In genre, the jedi are NOT balanced vs the other guys, not even close. So it might be that you can play a scifi genre rpg with enough balance and some things you name "jedi", but it might be wholly inappropriate to call this a star wars game.

This has been mentioned before in this thread, but I think a lot of people are overlooking it - there's a perfectly reasonably mechanic that let Jedi be more powerful than other characters in the films/books.

They're higher level. Jedi "adventure" more often, acquire more "experience" and thus become more powerful than almost all of their potential foes. Only characters with similar amounts of "experience" as a Jedi Knight could possibly challenge one. Someone who has been out in the galaxy, fighting/adventuring/whatever, as much as Jedi do is going to have a shot at taking one out (see Fett, Jango and Boba).

 

[Henry]

Jedi are over-powered, especially at higher levels. A properly written 11th level Jedi, for example, using all the rules presented in all the official d20 SW RPG books, could kill any official SW RPG NPC.

It may be so -- I've only used the Hero's Guide, the Core Rules, and the FAQ's from the web site, and they really haven't made a difference. Just using the core rules, I know they're balanced in the games I've seen with the other classes. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of these classes you're speaking of (The artisan, for instance) and I know that for most of the Jedi Prc's that give additional damage with lightsabers, you take one to the exclusion of another - in other words, if you're getting the additional damage from Jedi Weapon master, you aren't stacking it with the damage from jedi master and jedi guardian, or if you do you are VERY high level (like levels 16 to 20).

Of the forms I'm familiar with, Form IV has the potential to be a little abusive, but not completely power-breaking, because for every jedi with a macho lightsaber and bunches of vitality points, I've seen a Soldier multifiring a gun like a machine gun nest (what is it, like 6 or 7 attacks at +8 to +18 to hit or so)?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

They're higher level.

Exactly.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Couple of other thoughts on Stun:

- Keep in mind that blasters have a stun range of only 4m. So, if you want to shoot on stun, you need to be on top of your opponent.

1) Stun grenades. Which a Jedi can't deflect. Close counts.

2) Arms & Equipment introduced a blaster rifle that does stun at 10 meters, and the Deck Sweeper, aka the "Stun Hose", which shot an 8 meter cone of stun.

I'm reasonably certain the DM started using the Deck Sweeper on us after one player used it on NPCs. However, stun is so un-fun that he quit using those after a while.

- Living Force uses a house rule on stun that works a little better:
-- If you make your save, you suffer no effect at all
-- If you miss your save, you're unconscious for 1d4+1 rounds

Those are a bit better. Other alternatives are to have the weapon daze or nauseate the target. Both keep the idea of screwing the target up enough that they can be captured, but without the complete and utter rudeness of stunning.

Brad

 

[The_Gneech]

I'm currently playing an 8th level Jedi Guardian (dual-wielding a brace of lightsabers) in a game with a scoundrel/force adept and a NPC soldier/tech specialist. Each of us have our specialties ... my character is a melee terror and can Move Object fairly well, but is useless for most anything else. He's not a very good diplomat, he can't do anything even slightly sneaky, and if you put him in the cockpit of an X-Wing he'd crash the thing.

The scoundrel/force adept, on the other hand, can do the Mind Trick, can infiltrate enemy bases, and charm NPCs. And when it comes to flying the ship, slicing into computer systems, or working with droids, the soldier/tech specialist definitely steals the show.

So, when combat shows up, the other two stand back and watch as I carve everything to bits; when anything involving diplomacy shows up, the soldier/tech specialist and I stand back and watch the scoundrel/force adept run the show, and when anything mechanical or spaceship oriented is going on, the other player and I wait patiently for the GM to tell us what happens.

I'd say it's pretty balanced, overall.

Now, powergamer that I am, I've not only figured out how my character can be most effective, but I've also figured out what his weaknesses are. First of all, as I mentioned, is space combat. Jango Fett would have so killed my guy instead of Obi-Wan chasing through the Geonosis rings. Second, interestingly enough, is a giant open area with widely dispersed foes blazing away with ranged autofire. (Again, think Geonosis.) Fifteen low-level battledroids, arranged in three squads, using combined fire and auto ... would make one dead Jedi Guardian.

Grenades, as already mentioned in this thread, would be another big problem. Can't dodge 'em, can't deflect 'em, just gotta roll your reflex or fort save and hope for the best! (Interestingly enough, in the various Jedi Knight CRPGs, if you toss grenades at high level force-using foes, they use Move Object to knock 'em away as a relfex. Wish I could do that!)

-The Gneech