Expert vs. Expert...vs. Expert

[TerraDave]

We have two packs, three classes, and enough to do several builds.

So, what do you like?

Please try to use the (proposed) changes we know. We don't know all of them, there will almost certainly be other spells that are changed, other relevant feats, and so on, but from what we have seen of these three classes, and their three sub-classes, which is best!

 

[TerraDave]

Also, while you can edit polls, I see no way to fix typos.

Even if they hit you like a ROQ.

 

[Clint_L]

Bards were already one of the best classes and the new thing with being able to heal as a reaction using inspiration rather than a spell (they can also carry healing word) makes them borderline broken. Not to mention the best one level dip in the game.

Surprised to see rogues getting love; they didn't get much better in the revamp. Whereas Rangers are hugely improved.

 

[DeviousQuail]

For me there's a lot to like with this UA for each class, but not a complete win. The change in action economy really benefits them all. With that said I felt like the new ranger didn't wow me as much compared to where we were with the ranger post-Tasha's. The bard also didn't wow me but it still looks very strong mechanically. I've seen a lot about what the bard is or should be on this site (really interesting reads!) but it certainly isn't weak at the table and I don't think these changes will alter that.

Ultimately, I voted for the rogue because I've always liked the design of the class except for the way the subclass levels were spread out. Moving to 3, 6, 10, 14 is so much better and a massive win in my book. The change to twf is a boon to melee rogues even though it removes the interesting decision of bonus attack or cunning action. The only downside for me was moving evasion. Would've liked that to be at level 7 and the second expertise at level 9.

 

[TerraDave]

Surprised to see rogues getting love; they didn't get much better in the revamp. Whereas Rangers are hugely improved.

The ranger needed that.

The thief is much better. As noted, the change to 2 weapon fighting is also a boost.

 

[GreyLord]

Factotum...

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Rogue is already a superb class, the change to action economy and the clarification on Hide/Jump etc made them even better.

The others a not bad though. I feel the ranger could still have their lore expertise against specific creatures or different terrain, in addition to the more generic survival expertise and damage booster from HM. Its barely a ribbon, but a thematic one.

As for the bard, the best would be to give them more use of BI at level one. A battlemasters has 4 superiority dice when it comes online, so having Prof per short rest at 1st level, then something more interesting at level 5 would be more interesting and make BI the main ''thing'' on the class instead of a wizard with a few support thingy tacked on.

My idea:
- Font of Inspiration: You can convert 1 Heroic Inspiration to a Bardic Inspiration.
(By the way, having some classes recover some resource by spending Heroic Inspiration would be awesome: second wind or indomitable, a rage, some Ki points etc)

 

[tetrasodium]

Bards were already one of the best classes and the new thing with being able to heal as a reaction using inspiration rather than a spell (they can also carry healing word) makes them borderline broken. Not to mention the best one level dip in the game.

Surprised to see rogues getting love; they didn't get much better in the revamp. Whereas Rangers are hugely improved.

I don't entirely disagree with your reasoning & share some concerns. The degree of concern depends on how exhaustion 1-10 & death saves work though. If death saves are still the one true way of all things that the system is balanced over then the increases availability of trivially available ranged healing might be an issue. If death saves are just one option the gm can allow with the other being exhaustion mimicing old style death at - 10 its less concerning that a bard might be able to reaction shield some exhaustion from one attack while still leaving the shielded target in extreme dire straights.

The fact that there are a bunch of things that explicitly say they impact death saves without any of them that also touch exhausttionor touch exhaustion if doesn't give me much of a clue though

 

[Yaarel]

In this playtest, the Ranger at the lowest tier is the best class, with full spellcasting and combat and other features. Plus the Hunter subclass feature is comparable to the Rogue sneak attack.

The Rogue is solidly a powerful class and continues to be.

The Bard sucks in comparison.



It may well be, the spellcasting will eventually make the fullcaster Bard powerful at higher tiers. But at the lowest tier, including levels 1 to 4, the Bard is suffering.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I do not think we have been reading the same playtest packet.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Bard can do everything, same as before. And reaction heal, which will never not feel wrong.

Ranger was fine after Tasha's, but they still changed it to be even blander. Hunter's Mark is a mistake. What a ridiculous 1-level dip.

Rogue... oh god, what a massacre. Deserves so much better, but that's what happens when you're not a spellcaster.

 

[Yaarel]

Bard can do everything, same as before. And reaction heal, which will never not feel wrong.

Ranger was fine after Tasha's, but they still changed it to be even blander. Hunter's Mark is a mistake. What a ridiculous 1-level dip.

Rogue... oh god, what a massacre. Deserves so much better, but that's what happens when you're not a spellcaster.

Even the 5e mages continue the problematic tradition of sucking at low tiers to be crazy powerful at high tiers.

The spells need serious rebalancing to make sure each spell is worthy of the slot level it is in, and is comparable to the rest of the spells in that slot.

There needs to be a smoother, incremental improvement across spell slots 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.

Slots 7 and 8 occasionally need pruning or a boost and 9 occasionally needs a nerf.

The only spell that might be full on broken is Forcecage that needs designer attention.

Generally, high tier games need more designer attention.

At the lowest tier, every class needs to be comparable and equally desirable in each of the pillars: social, exploratory, and combat.

 

[Yaarel]

Bard can do everything, same as before. And reaction heal, which will never not feel wrong.

The Bard lost its longsword and rapier and support spells.

I am fine with using the Simple Weapon shortsword. But the spells are off in their flavor and function.