Explain Canada

[Khayman]

Canadians from coast to coast might not agree on much else, but a healthy loathing of Toronto is part of the national psyche. It probably goes unnoticed in TO, however.

 

[Joël of the FoS]

I get the impression from this thread that Toronto isn't well-liked by Canadians not living there. Why is that, or am I misreading this thread?

Unfortunately, people from the City are often looking down to the rest of the country, not by really thinking they are the best, but by thinking the rest of the country is so backward

Many white collar persons having to deal with Toronto will tell you they feel that way, i.e. the Toronto business club is closed to the rest of the country. There are not many architects or publicists, for example, from another canadian metropolitan area getting contracts in Toronto. They aren't considered as equal in business proposal.

This said, it's a cool city to visit It used to be borring (say, compared to Montréal or Vancouver), but last time I was there, it was fun and energic. If they now could change their attitude, people would like the city more.

Joël

 

[Banshee16]

Being Canadian, here are a few things:

*Canada is very similar to the US (baring French-speaking Quebec), so we tend to define oureslves in how we're different than America, rather than in our similarities. There are differences, but they're not so big that you can't feel comfortable. In general, Canadians are slightly more liberal than Americans, but this tends to be overstaked (unless you're into canabis culture or are hoping to marry someone of the same sex). Culture in Vacouver (BC) isn't too different than Seattle. Albertans aren't too different than mid Western Americans, and us folk in Toronto aren't too differerent than those in say Chicago or Boston. East-Coasters are similar to those in the East coast of the US.

*things will be slightly cheaper here, as the American dollar gets a premium. Hower this exchnage rate is falling. 5 years ago, $1 CDN would be worth .65 US. Now its $1 to .85 or so. So don't expect a consistent rate over the next 3 or 4 years. Cost of living is roughly comparable. Overall, Canadians are less wealthy than Americans, and tend to drive smaller cars and live in smaller hourses. But it's not a huge difference.

*Winters are generally colder, but if you're from Minesota, then you know how to dress sensibly. Vancouver tends to be merely wet without a lot of snow, but if you live in Ottawa or Edmunton, be prepared for long winters.

*Canada has some excellent universities. None of our universities are as well-funded as say Harvard, but this really only affects top-level graduate research (or those pursuing sporting scholarships). Our best-funded research university (the University of Toronto), which is an excellent graduate university, is ironically not one I'd recommend for undergraduates as it can be big and impersonal. I would find a university that has a good program for you, that is of a comfortable size. (And possibly not too, too far from home, cause it's nice to visit).

*Most big cities have excellent role-playing stores and communities.

*Get comfortable with the metric system.

*Our beer is better.

*If you like hockey, things will be good. Lots of Canadians don't like hockey, and that's ok too.

*TV is about the same, but we get the CBC, which means the new Dr. Who. (not sure when the new season starts though).

Well, there are other cities in Canada than Toronto, as well as other excellent universities than the U of T (as we call it). McGill has excellent medical research programs, as well as psychology. The University of Alberta has a fantastic program if you're into paleontology. The University of Ottawa has a very good law school, is very well funded for research, and is tied to the Ottawa Hospital-General Campus, which has one of the best funded and most successful heart research facilities in the country (and is known Internationally). The University in Halifax has a very good marine biology program. So, really, what university you'd want to go to depends on what you want to take.

As others have stated, we're not all lumberjacks, hockey players etc. And despite what some Americans believe, it's not snowy weather here 24-7. A friend of mine visited Alberta in June a few years ago, and ran into a family from Texas or some other sounthern state who showed up with snowsuits and skis, expecting to ski and wondering why there was no snow.

I haven't lived in the U.S. but I've visited often enough, and my brother works there every day, driving back and forth between Detroit and Windsor. The richest in the U.S. are definitely richer than in Canada, but the poor in Canada aren't nearly as bad off. We don't have the same issues with poverty related crime to the same degree, though they are there. At the same time, the racial issues also aren't there to the same degree. In some parts of the country, there are discriminatory attitudes towards natives, but that's improving. But African-descended Canadians? Or Asian? For many of us, it really doesn't matter. There are tonnes of inter-"racial" marriages and such.

Generally people are pretty friendly. I find we're not as "in your face" about politics or religion etc. But we get tonnes of American cultural imports, so we're probably closer culturally to Americans than any other country in the world. But, as others have said, we also pride ourselves on our differences. Most of us don't want to be the next state, though we do *like* the States. But we want to be neighbours...we don't want to move into your house.

I find that in recent years, there's a far greater separation between the church and politics in Canada than there is in the U.S,, which appears to be moving in the opposite direction. Our politics are generally left-leaning in comparison to the U.S. Even our conservatives would be more like democrats in the U.S., from what I understand. But there are far more than two parties....four of them have legitimate power at the moment, with a few others such as the "Green" party, being on the sidelines, without official status, but showing in the elections. Typically, Canadians seem to be less polarized about their politics in the U.S. so if you're into getting all fired up about it in discussions, you may want to tone it down a bit, as it'll just annoy others around you.

Generally, we're pretty safe. Your chances of getting shot or murdered are far less than in the U.S. I think my city had 8 murders last year, and another year within the last 5, we had I think 4 or 5. For a city of a million people, that's not too high. I don't generally feel any fear about walking alone at night.....I'm honestly more afraid because there have been cougar sightings near my city than I am of another person when I'm alone. And of course, the bears. In certain parts of the country, again, you need to be fairly cautious when on the outskirts of the cities. I've got friends who have friends that were killed by bears while jogging on paths outside the city, etc. Not that they're coming into the city or anything....just the standard problem....communities move further out into the wilderness, and the chances of dangerous encounters with wildlife increase. It's still more likely that you'd get hit by a car or something though.

As to our winters, they're notorious apparently, but really not that bad. My city (Ottawa) had a low of about -40 celcius last winter. But the summers get hot enough. I think we hit about 33 celcius during June and July this year. Maybe not as high as Florida or something, but hot enough for me. But I personally grew up in those conditions every winter, so you just get used to it and dress for the weather. A key in any of the areas that get colder temperatures is to learn to enjoy the cold weather for what it is. A chance to get out and enjoy the crisp outdoors without the sweat and bugs and dirt and west nile and whatnot that we have to deal with all summer. Many of our cities in Ontario, Alberta, BC, and Quebec are close to great ski hills, biking and hiking facilities, cross country ski hills, etc.

If you plan on going to Quebec, definitely start taking French courses. Due to political issues, some people in that province can be really ignorant if you don't speak the language. Not that they all are....but one or two bad experiences can ruin anybody's day. At the same time, it's a fantastic culture over there.

For sports, Americans hear about Canadians and hockey all the time, but matter of fact, more Canadians play soccer than hockey. We are very proud of hockey though.

Technologically speaking, we're up there with the best. We've got the best telecommunications network in the world, a very high rate of Internet connectedness among our citizenry, a high ratio of computers per househould, strong literacy rate, advanced medical facilities (that are unfortunately under a lot of stress at the moment), and strong aerospace industries. The Canadian economy is currently on fire, led both by the energy industry, as well as what *was* a low valued dollar assisting our exports. That may slow down due to the increasing value of our dollar leading to increasing pricing for those exports.

Overall, though there are currently several issues that Canadians are frustrated with our neighbours attitudes about (lumber tariffs, cattle, war, politics), we generally like the U.S., and are closer to them than any other country. There likely won't be much culture shock, you'll likely be received fairly well, as we're generally a fairly quiet and even-tempered people, and in fact, there's always the chance that you may decide you don't want to go back

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Well, as a former Montrealer, Con U and McGill student, I can't completely agree with you. Finding a part-time job will be harder... much harder if you are talking about a retail job (but outside the east end of Montreal, it's hard to find retail work unless you speak BOTH French and English).

It is perfectly feasable to function as a unilingual Anglophone (i.e. English-speaker) in Montreal but you end up being limited to western parts of the city... pretty much from St. Laurent Boulevard westwards. All of downtown is bilingual (actually, it's more Anglo than Franco) and places like Westmount, NDG and the Snowdon area are pretty much English-speaking areas.

My wife (a Torontonian by birth and upbringing) lived and functioned just fine as an unilingual English-speaker during her 4 years as a Concordia student. It can definitely be done.

Do I recommend living in Montreal without learning some French and getting to enjoy the other half of the city? Of course not. You'd be missing out of lots of great experiences. But you can certainly function in Montreal without French. Just don't move into a unilingual neighbourhood. If you live anywhere near McGill or Concordia, the vast majority of the locals speak English just fine.

For an American student looking for something different, Montreal might be a very interesting choice. It is probably the least American feeling city in Canada that an English speaker can function in on a day-to-day basis. Quebec City is even more unique in some ways but day-to-day living there pretty much requires fluency in French (although tourists can get by with English just fine). Even Anglo-Montrealers are pretty different from other Canadians since they share many of the social habits and attitudes of their French-speaking compatriots (I mean lifestyle here, not politics).

I tend to agree. As a former Montrealer, I had many friends that spoke no French at all. But they stayed west of St. Laurent most of the time. But the West Island etc. is full of Anglophones. My old town didn't have any Francophones.....or at least, the percentage was something like 4% when I lived there. At the same time, you can run into problems with some Francophones refusing to offer assistance if you don't speak the language. Generally, I saw more of this when support for separation was high than I see now.

Montreal is a fantastic city though, full of culture, and very different. Aside from the political issues, probably one of my favourite cities in Canada.

Banshee

 

[devilbat]

I get the impression from this thread that Toronto isn't well-liked by Canadians not living there. Why is that, or am I misreading this thread?

We've seen a couple of examples of why some Canadians have "not so nice" feelings towards Torontonians, in this thread. We non Toronto residing Canadians find some of their attitudes to be arrogant, and we tire of the people who seem to look down their nose at the rest of the country.

As far as the city goes, I love to visit.

 

[Joël of the FoS]

At the same time, you can run into problems with some Francophones refusing to offer assistance if you don't speak the language. Generally, I saw more of this when support for separation was high than I see now.

You will find idiots everywhere

If you are from out of the province and just arrived, just make sure it is clearly understood by the other person. These few people a little intolerant won't be with a person from out of the country, unless they are really moron (which is thankfully rare, as for when a Quebecker goes western Canada - generally welcomed well, except by a few idiots).

Some french quebeckers are blaming anglo-quebecker for not speaking French (with perhaps some understandable bitterness), but I very rarely heard of this idiotic behavior when the poor guy was known to be from out of Québec.

Just learn a few quick French words. If people see you trying, you will get their sympathy quickly.

Joël

 

[Banshee16]

You will find idiots everywhere

If you are from out of the province and just arrived, just make sure it is clearly understood by the other person. These few people a little intolerant won't be with a person from out of the country, unless they are really moron (which is thankfully rare, as for when a Quebecker goes western Canada - generally welcomed well, except by a few idiots).

Some french quebeckers are blaming anglo-quebecker for not speaking French (with perhaps some understandable bitterness), but I very rarely heard of this idiotic behavior when the poor guy was known to be from out of Québec.

Just learn a few quick French words. If people see you trying, you will get their sympathy quickly.

Joël

Just to be clear, I'm not saying everyone is like that in Quebec Plenty of Quebecers I've known would appreciate the *effort* to speak their language. I was lucky enough to learn both languages, but many people aren't. And just to be fair, there are plenty of English Canadians and English Quebecers who refuse to bother trying.

But overall, most people are pretty moderate about the whole thing. I can pick out individual examples of rudeness..but then I remember all the times where I didn't see any rudeness, and it's not fair to tar 7 million people because of a few bad apples.

Montreal's definitely a very cool city to live in during the university experience, if you like culture.

Ah, it's been a few years. Unfortunately, my favourite greasy spoon, Chez Basile in St. Anne de Bellevue closed down after I left for Ontario. Sniff......they had the *best* poutine

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

I get the impression from this thread that Toronto isn't well-liked by Canadians not living there. Why is that, or am I misreading this thread?

We don't hate Toronto. I think a lot of Canadians who don't live in Toronto just get frustrated because there's a perceived attitude that Torontonians see Toronto as the only place of importance in Canada....whether that perspective is correct or not.

Maybe there's an element of jealousy involved as well, since it is the largest, most economically powerful city in Canada.

Canadians tend to be pretty modest. People that flaunt what they have or become too visibly successful are sometimes looked down on. The city of Toronto gets looked at in that light.

Personally, I don't dislike it, but I like Montreal, Halifax, and Calgary better.

Banshee

 

[Joël of the FoS]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying everyone is like that in Quebec

Don't worry, I didn't understand your post this way. Still I wanted to correct an often heard misconception

And just to be fair, there are plenty of English Canadians and English Quebecers who refuse to bother trying.

That canadians from other provinces do not speak French doesn't worry us - that's understandable as most French are concentrated in Québec (and a few other smaller areas). They are not exposed to French / have no need learning it.

However, that English Quebecker refuse bother trying even a little is beyond me. I can't explain it without thinking either of bigotry, perceived superiorism of their language, or the silly argument "well, English is the majority in Canada, so I won't learn French" (Hello, good neighbour! Wake up! ). These anglo-canadian-from-Québec are in fact responsible for the most for some's ill oriented bad feeling toward anglo-canadians in general.

Ah, it's been a few years. Unfortunately, my favourite greasy spoon, Chez Basile in St. Anne de Bellevue closed down after I left for Ontario. Sniff......they had the *best* poutine

*lol*

Joël

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

We don't hate Toronto. I think a lot of Canadians who don't live in Toronto just get frustrated because there's a perceived attitude that Torontonians see Toronto as the only place of importance in Canada....whether that perspective is correct or not.

That's pretty much how most people on the east coast of the US feel about New York, and I'm sure how the west coasters feel about LA. And the midwesterners about Chicago, and the southerners about Atlanta.