Explain INT and Reflex, Please

[Branduil]

I think "INT to AC and Reflex" makes more sense than STR to Fortitude vs. things like poisons. Explain that one to me.

Chuck Norris is so strong, his blood vessels have tiny fists in them that choke poison molecules to death.

 

[Herald of I]

Secondly, intelligence and grades in school are not as strongly related as many people think. Intelligent people can recall relevant information swiftly and accurately, and can draw connections and reach correct conclusions quickly. These are both useful qualities to have in a fight, but the speed involved is only sometimes helpful for school grades.

As an aspiring progressive educator, this particular distinction strikes me as of prime import. Wizards aren't necessarily bookish. Give or take arcana, they could neglect all but one other "knowledge" skill. Regardless, schooling has little to do with intelligence, or distressingly often, learning.

 

[Skyscraper]

I'd say that most examples aren't really examples of intelligence as much as they are either quick thinking or observational and analytical skills. I guess you could say that's a part of "Intelligence" as it relates to the game, but it's not a part of what intelligence is in real life.

And what, according to you, is intelligence in real life?

There are varying theories and evolving trends as to how intelligence should be defined and what it includes. If you know the single answer to that question, please enlighten us immediately! I'm sure there are a lot of people who would be interested in reading your answer, surely to be published in Science, no less

For starters, wikipedia provides some clues of the different theories and definitions on intelligence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence

Personally, i have no problem with an intelligent creature being better at dodging or blows or fighting effectively. As an analogy, there are professional (or even amateur) sportsmen that are obviously intelligent in the way they play the game without having quick reflexes or being more powerful than others. They just make the right decisions at the right time. I'm actually surprised that some people disagree with this approach at all.

Sky

 

[Malicea]

The more difficult question to answer is: Why is the guy with 20 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 18 Int and 18 Dex.

or later on:

Why is the guy with 30 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 28 Int and 28 Dex.

 

[Skyscraper]

The more difficult question to answer is: Why is the guy with 20 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 18 Int and 18 Dex.

or later on:

Why is the guy with 30 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 28 Int and 28 Dex.

This assumes dodging is the only action that affects your AC. How about anticipation? Intelligent movement? Positioning? Feints? Lures? Using terrain to your advantage? Voluntarily waiting that your opponent commits to swinging or throwing or casting before moving to avoid? Creating an opening that you know your opponent will aim for, but closing it instantly? And so on.

Sky

 

[theNater]

The more difficult question to answer is: Why is the guy with 20 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 18 Int and 18 Dex.

or later on:

Why is the guy with 30 Int and 8 Dex better at dodging stuff than the guy with 28 Int and 28 Dex.

I'd say it's because dodging(or other avoidance techniques) and attacking take the same amount of time. No matter how quick you are, you only get to try to dodge each attack once, and if you dodge the wrong way, you can't turn around mid-dodge(barring special abilities, of course).

You can start your dodge early, if you think you know where the attack is coming, with the risk that you will misjudge and be in mid-dodge when you get hit. Or you can wait until the last second, and risk not being quite fast enough. But you can't start dodging left, see that your opponent accounted for that, then un-dodge, no matter how fast you are.

Of course there are powers that permit such things, like the fighter's Last Ditch Evasion(10) and the ranger's Evade the Blow(16).

 

[interwyrm]

You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

(someone with a 25 IQ has a quarter of the IQ of the average person)

Wrong. IQ doesn't work like that. The IQ score is a statistical measure. 100 is average - 50th percentile. I don't remember the exact numbers, but 140 is something like 98th percentile, and 160 is something like 99.9th percentile.

So... someone with 25 IQ is probably smarter than something like 1 in 100 million people.

 

[The_Fan]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but considering there are now no more antimagic fields it's entirely possible for a character's int-based Reflex defense to be the result of minor defensive wards. A wizard might throw up a quick shield to divert the dragon's breath, or a shadow might dart out and deflect the rogue's dagger just before he hits the warlock.

It's all in your description.

 

[Malicea]

This assumes dodging is the only action that affects your AC. How about anticipation? Intelligent movement? Positioning? Feints? Lures? Using terrain to your advantage? Voluntarily waiting that your opponent commits to swinging or throwing or casting before moving to avoid? Creating an opening that you know your opponent will aim for, but closing it instantly? And so on.

Sky

It assumes nothing. Dodging, anticipation, whatever you want to rationalize AC/reflex as, the question is why 2 points less Int cannot be made up for by 20 more points of Dex. Surely a guy who just a tad less bright but ten times as quick/agile should have an advantage.

 

[HeinorNY]

I've seen a movie where the characters could dodge bullets by using math.

But yeah, the real answer, like anything else about 4E, is in the meta world: MAD is bad.