Explain why DMPCs are bad to me.

[Goddess FallenAngel]

I've seen a lot of comments along the lines of "DMPCs suck!" and "I hate DMPCs with a passion!".

I don't get it. Why are they so bad? Am I the only person on the planet that doesn't mind DMPCs?

I've had brushes with a few bad ones occasionally, I admit. But the DM I usually game with has had a DMPC in just about every campaign I have been in except the few most recent... and I don't see the problem.

He usually only brings in a DMPC to cover an area we as PCs don't have covered, like when there were 2 of us, and neither of us a cleric, or when we needed information on a particular city, and we located an ex-resident, who we then had tag along (I want to point out, the DM didn't require us to take him along, the PCs decided to drag him along).

To sum up, the only bad experiences I have had with DMPCs were in games with (what I consider to be) bad DMs.

I know this topic has probably been gone over before, feel free to point me towards the older threads if you have links.

 

[Crothian]

THe main reasons is DMPCs can steal the players thunder. They are easier for the DM to plot around and easier for the DM to make better then the PCs.

I do agree that a DMPC can be done well and have seen it. But I know more often DM's screw it up.

 

[kenobi65]

THe main reasons is DMPCs can steal the players thunder. They are easier for the DM to plot around and easier for the DM to make better then the PCs.

Yup. Too often, the DMPC winds up being the star of the show, and that's what makes them bad.

 

[Psion]

DMPC's aren't universally bad.

But I do believe that their use is easily abused by neophyte GMs.

What is comes down to is that you, as the GM, have onmiscience and omnipotence when it comes to empowering any NPC. If you identify a character as "your own", you can marginalize the rest of the players as your pet hero saves the day using its inside line to the brain of the creator of the universe. It's difficult for those with the wrong temperament (for some, experience is not a factor) to act as an impartial judge in this situation.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I've run a DMPC a few times to make up for not having enough players for a decent game. In general, though, I don't like it.

Too many times, a DMPC ends up being the center of attention, taking that attention away from the stars of the show, the PCs.

When I do DMPC, I try to keep them low-key and in the background. Even then, though, the PCs tend to look to the DMPCs for guidance.

It can be done..I've done it successfully..but for the most part, it does suck for the players.

 

[Gothmog]

I've seen very good DMPCs and horrible ones. In general I like the idea though, as long as its done fairly.

Bad DMPCs steal everyone else's thunder, are ultra-cool, pull off things no other PC could, and in general are annoying buttheads. Bad DMs use them to live out childish power fantasies, and will not tolerate anyone going against the DMPC. I've seen four like this in the 22 years I've been gaming, and they were intolerable. You either have to leave the game, or just grit your teeth and bear it, because there is no way to be rid of them.

Good DMPCs are there to fill a role the party is usually missing. They are not given preferential treatment, items, or consideration, and suffer the same breaks the PCs do. It is important to keep the DMPC low-key though. They can be invaluable for helping to direct the plot, or suggest ideas if the PCs are struggling, and when roleplayed well, gain distinct personalities of their own. Maybe I've been lucky with the DMPCs I've run into, but in general the DMs I've played with have been mature, well-adjusted people who have no need to compensate or lord power over others. Done well, a DMPC adds a lot to a game.

 

[Cedric]

I run a DMPC when the group is on the smallish side (only 3 players). I never let my DMPC take the spotlight...or at least, very rarely will it take the spotlight, sometimes it just works out that way.

I don't let me DMPC break the rules. I make sure it's a class, race and personality that compliments the players and I quietly contribute without taking up too many player resources and without contributing so much that I trivialize encounters.

It's a tough balance, and I had problems with it maybe 15 years ago, but it's worked for me for quite awhile now. Of course, like I said, it's a tool that I only employee if the group is small enough that the extra player is a benefit.

 

[Ian Demagi]

Dmpc

In 3rd Ed, Why have a DMPC when there are well delveloped co-hort rules? If you are missing something important from a party, spend a feat and take leadership. DMPC's take the spotlight from the players. Ian.

 

[Shemeska]

DMPCs are just NPCs who happen to be part of the PCs adventuring group.

Don't treat them as special, no more than any other NPC, and don't make them an extension of the DM. Give them a well developed personality, but don't make them a Mary Sue for yourself.

And yes, n00b DMs should avoid them like the plague because if done poorly they'll make players fear any type of DMPC from then on. When they're bad, they're really bad. But in the hands of an experienced DM who knows his group and who knows what -not- to do, they're invaluable, and frankly a standard part of the game in many cases.

 

[Brimshack]

I've always used DM PCs, as have the players I learned the game from back in the early 80s. I remember games in which the DM PC was the center of the action and everyone played along. I hated it, and I wouldn't put up with it now. But that same thing can be done with offcial NPCs.

I've often seen DMs become so attached to specific NPCs that over the course of a few games the NPC becomes a virtual PC for the party. The NPC that was along for the ride or just there to help us through a tough spot ends up becoming a central force in the party. What then separates it from a regular player character is that it isn't subject to the character generating rules that the rest of us used. Hence, the NPC hero is often several levels higher than the party and much better outfitted. It knows more about everything that counts because the DM has already decided it does and he has know shame in running the character as brighter than the rest of th group. It clearly dominates the campaign much more so than a a regular PC would have. I have never felt like a tag-along from PCs half as much as I have from one of these unplanned bonding experiences when a DM decides to just keep playing the bad-ass NPC over and over until the only thing that separates him from a PC is all the extra power and foresight he gets for being a pawn of the DM.

The problem emerges often enough that I'd rather just deal with it up front myself. I'm playing a PC or two, just like my players. I like playing PCs and I want a chance to develop a character just like the other players, so I'm going to. Selfish, I know, but being up front about it, I can control the matter a bit more. My character(s) will be rolled up using the same rules as the other players, and so it will be comparable to their characters without being overpowering.

That said, there are a couple extra rules that we usually apply to DM characters: They don't take point, they don't act as leaders, and they don't make or contribute to strategic decisions. The DMs character will not solve puzzles and it will not be the first to try a problem solving tactic. If other characters want specific actions from my own PCs they are encouraged to shout instructions and/or suggestions. I usually draw my characters up with that in mind, making them a little bit aloof and/or subserviant. Or I just make them querky enough that no-one will want to consider their judgement on real decisions. I also tend to design them as support characters (Cleric's, Druids, etc. or for that matter the meat shield whose stated purpose is to keep the Mage alive).

One additional problem which can arise with DM PCs is that if your players come and go a lot, you may end up with a level advantage or 2. That's because you are always there while your players miss a game every now and then. You can account for this in a variety of ways, but the main thing is just to keep it in mind and take steps to correct it when necessary.

DM bias in favor of a character is a problem. The temptation to spare your favorite character is there, but it occurs with other players' characters as well. In the end, I suspect I overcompensate a bit, thumping my own characters more than those of other players. I tend to lose my own characters a bit faster than the other players, and I think I've seen comparable problems with the other DMs playing PCs in my area.