TSR Explainers: Background on the TSR/WoTC Litigation (Part 1- State or Federal)

[Parmandur]

It's funny - when I think of the old TSR I think of two different companies - there was the TSR that created some of the games that defined my youth that I have a lot of fond memories for. I kind of miss that company. Wizards is a good steward of D&D but they're never going to produce something out there like Mertwig's Maze or Gangbusters - that's not the kind of company they are.

But then there was the T$R that destroyed other gaming companies via litigation and went around threatening to sue fans for publishing fan created materials. I don't miss that company at all.

Funny enough they were the same company - it wasn't even like there was one era when they were good and another era when they were horrible. They were both simultaneously.

In conclusion, TSR is a land of contrasts.

They were very good at the art of making games, but terrible at business from just about every other angle.

One of the most shocking things I've heard was that TSR R&D never received sales feedback until they were folded into WotC: they were simply never told when a product sold well or poorly so they could adjust to the audience.

 

[Jer]

One of the most shocking things I've heard was that TSR R&D never received sales feedback until they were folded into WotC: they were simply never told when a product sold well or poorly so they could adjust to the audience.

I hadn't heard that - what I had heard is that according to Ryan Dancey TSR never did any market research around anything. They never polled their customers, tried to find out what they liked or didn't like, or anything like that. They figured out what people wanted by putting out product and seeing whether people bought it.

Now that I know about the Random House deal that attitude makes a lot more sense - they needed to grind out product to keep their pyramid scheme with Random House afloat so actually spending money to find out what their customers wanted would have delayed getting product out and would have cost them money they needed to keep things floating, but at the time I found it astonishing.

 

[Parmandur]

I hadn't heard that - what I had heard is that according to Ryan Dancey TSR never did any market research around anything. They never polled their customers, tried to find out what they liked or didn't like, or anything like that. They figured out what people wanted by putting out product and seeing whether people bought it.

Now that I know about the Random House deal that attitude makes a lot more sense - they needed to grind out product to keep their pyramid scheme with Random House afloat so actually spending money to find out what their customers wanted would have delayed getting product out and would have cost them money they needed to keep things floating, but at the time I found it astonishing.

yeah, that bit came from Stan! in regards to the Dragonance Saga system, in particular. TSR R&D was very happy with that product line in terms of design and art and they got good feedback from foks at conventions, so they supported it for years. But then WotC bought them and showed the development team the sales numbers for the first time ever, and they realized that may have been a strategic error.

 

[Jer]

yeah, that bit came from Stan! in regards to the Dragonance Saga system, in particular. TSR R&D was very happy with that product line in terms of design and art and they got good feedback from foks at conventions, so they supported it for years. But then WotC bought them and showed the development team the sales numbers for the first time ever, and they realized that may have been a strategic error.

I bought every Saga set that they released because I loved the idea of the game even if I wasn't a huge Dragonlance fan. When they released the Marvel version it replaced MSH FASERIP and become our most played superhero game for a long time.

But I was always shocked that they kept producing it. I couldn't actually believe that it was popular enough to support two entire lines given that I couldn't find anyone else who played it. Even at cons, where you'd expect to find niche games, nothing. I think in 25 years I've found a grand total of 1 Saga game being played at a con (and that was a Marvel game a few years back - I've never seen D5A run ever).

So finding out that TSR was producing things to sell without actually caring about whether it sold or not makes sense, even as it boggles my mind as a business decision.

 

[MGibster]

Funny enough they were the same company - it wasn't even like there was one era when they were good and another era when they were horrible. They were both simultaneously.

A wise songwriter once wrote, "You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have the facts of life. The facts of life." I know far more about TSR today than I ever did in the 1980s and 1990s. While it hasn't diminished my good memories, I will admit that I'm sometimes amazed TSR was so successful given how it was run.

 

[LordEntrails]

A wise songwriter once wrote, "You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have the facts of life. The facts of life." I know far more about TSR today than I ever did in the 1980s and 1990s. While it hasn't diminished my good memories, I will admit that I'm sometimes amazed TSR was so successful given how it was run.

Some ideas are so strong that they succeed no matter how poorly they are presented or managed. D&D, thankfully, is one of those.