D&D 5E [+]Exploration Falls Short For Many Groups, Let’s Talk About It

[S'mon]

wasn’t really interested in Dragonbane so far, but this I am curious about now

It's a brilliant game! Takes the best of BRP with a bit of 5e D&D and a smidgin of YZE.

 

[S'mon]

So you're saying the solution is for DMs to go camping in the wilderness to gain a better understanding of exploration???

I definitely find wilderness hiking improves my GMing.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I remember in the forest near my family's highland house (Boganclogh Lodge), it took an hour or so for my son & me to cross some boggy ground with a small stream, the Kirkney Water, in the middle. I think I carried him across in the end; there was a fallen log over the stream, but it seemed too fragile and I didn't cross it. Maybe 100' in an hour?

Interesting skill challenge .
Sounds like you failed your initial survival check, passed the con checks, make the next survival check and str check for the finish.
yup 3 successes and one fail, good job.

 

[S'mon]

Interesting skill challenge .
Sounds like you failed your initial survival check, passed the con checks, make the next survival check and str check for the finish.
yup 3 successes and one fail, good job.

I was pleased with myself we did eventually get across. Then I was amazed how long it took! The stream cuts a pretty deep gouge, with boggy terrain on either side. The remains of cut-down trees on either side create treacherous covered pits that can easily collapse when stood on. Difficulty 6-3 skill challenge in 4e rules I'd say.

(That was the last time I went off-path)

 

[UngainlyTitan]

So you're saying the solution is for DMs to go camping in the wilderness to gain a better understanding of exploration???

After some consideration I decided to give this a more serious reply. Some time ago I started a project to convert a DM Screen into a mod for FantasyGrounds so I would have ready access to all the tables and info in a short collection of links.
When I saw the DCs for navigation I stood up and ranted at the walls for 20 minutes. "This not how navigation works." It is a process not an one and done skill check. Also terrain types as defined in D&D, (Mountain, hills, grass, costal, desert and arctic) is completely meaningless. There are mountains in some deserts that are also deserts and some that are not. It is conflating biomes and terrain and topology.
For navigation, if one is leaving the Gap of Rohan heading for Tharbad and there is no road then the sensible thing would be to bear slightly east of north west and hit the Greyflood west of the town. If one arrives at swampy ground then one is likely too far east and needs to head west a bit before resuming north.
This ignorance of some very simple basics that started me off on what is needed for exploration and journeys in D&D. Thinking about it I realised that the real world practicalities of navigation and trekking is not actually that relevant except for informing encounters and narrative.
There are journeys along known and settles routes, journeys along a researched route, there one can get into trouble but only if one pushes past the limit of supply.
Then there is systemic exploration.

Edit: That said the games need a better more nuanced list of lands. The ones for the UA druid are promising.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I was pleased with myself we did eventually get across. Then I was amazed how long it took! The stream cuts a pretty deep gouge, with boggy terrain on either side. The remains of cut-down trees on either side create treacherous covered pits that can easily collapse when stood on. Difficulty 6-3 skill challenge in 4e rules I'd say.

(That was the last time I went off-path)

Now you more sympathise with Frodo and co trying to evade the clutches of Old Man Willow.

 

[Minigiant]

I am not sure offering more options would somehow cater to fewer people

My point is that there is a segment of the community who doesn't want D&D to offer more options because they feel they know how to DM or play and more options would put an onus on them to justify their rulings over the official core rules or the official variations.

"My chart for X will be better than theirs so they shouldn't print theirs. IF they print theirs, people will come to the table expecting to use their over my superior one."

Doesn't help that TSR and WOTC had printed some stinkers over the years to bolster this belief.

 

[FrozenNorth]

What's the purpose of combat? I expect it also varies from person to person and group to group, yet we sure have a lot of rules for that!

My conclusion isn’t that exploration shouldn’t have detailed rules because different people get different enjoyment out of it. It’s that a DM should first find out what brings the group enjoyment than base rules on that.

The best rules in the world can’t make resource attrition interesting to someone who doesn’t care about it. Likewise, if you want resource attrition, you’re not going to be happy with rules that ignore it.

We don’t have to engage in this analysis for combat because combat already has detailed mechanical rules. The ship’s sailed if you want combat to be decided by player descriptions and a couple of skill rolls.

 

[mamba]

My point is that there is a segment of the community who doesn't want D&D to offer more options because they feel they know how to DM or play and more options would put an onus on them to justify their rulings over the official core rules or the official variations.

with that logic you can justify not making any change ever, yet somehow we will probably get bastion rules even though the exact same thing would be true there as well

 

[Minigiant]

with that logic you can justify not making any change ever, yet somehow we will probably get bastion rules even though the exact same thing would be true there as well

Hey, I'm not making the justification.
And the people who typically hold this position play the older versions of D&D or updated/cleaned variants of them.

But the DMG has an embarrassingly low amount of traps, few noncombat encounter tables, and no charts to roll to invent lore.
Imagine if you could roll on some Mad Libs "Secret lore" chart and learn "Hags used arcane magic to create goliaths out of bones"