Extra dimensional spaces and divination magic

[Quasqueton]

Are items stored in a bag of holding, handy haversack, portable hole, or other similar space "concealed" from visual divinations like detect magic, detect good/evil/law/chaos, etc.?

Quasqueton

 

[diaglo]

Are items stored in a bag of holding, handy haversack, portable hole, or other similar space "concealed" from visual divinations like detect magic, detect good/evil/law/chaos, etc.?

Quasqueton

yes.

 

[Thanee]

They are definitely concealed from anything requiring line of sight or line of effect or even being on the same plane of existance.

I'm not sure, whether it would hinder scrying, which works across planar boundaries. Probably not.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Quasqueton]

They are definitely concealed from anything requiring line of sight or line of effect or even being on the same plane of existance.

Damn. You know, I didn't even think of a pack blocking line of effect/sight. I just assumed the aura could be seen. Total brain block on that.

Thanks.

Quasqueton

 

[Thanee]

Heh. That's not really the point, tho. The items are not inside the physical constraints of the backpack. It's just the gateway to a pocket dimension, or whatever, where the items are.

They are simply not there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[scrubkai]

Scry

On a related question....
If you did Scry on an item within a bag of holding what would you see?

I'm assuming you would only see the other stuff in the bag of holding, and not anything the bag itself or who is carrying it.

Do you all agree?

 

[Thanee]

Well, unless you can see in the dark, you would see not much, anyways.

And yes, definitely nothing outside of the bag would be seen, that's far, far away from the content.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ninja-to]

But remember that you can use a Detect Magic spell to find a Rope Trick, which creates a non-dimensional/extra-dimensional space. Notice I use these words interchangeably. I don't want to start another debate on it here, but if you read the Portable Hole magic item description, both terms are used interchangeabely, even though I *do* realize that non-dimensional and extra-dimensional tend to be used for different types of items. There was another thread on it and nobody could provide solid evidence that both are different. Everyone was just guessing and house ruling based on magic item descriptions, so let's not go off on a tangent anyway...

I'd rule that YES, you *can* detect the magic item itself (bag of holding etc), though what's inside the item, probably not. I'd rule not. It's on another plane, in it's own dimensional space. If the divination spell reaches onto other planes, then yes.

I think that's the real issue. Do divination spells reach onto other planes? I personally don't see why not. As far as I know, you don't need line of effect *or* line of sight for divination spells at all. If you use Detect Magic, you get general sense of magic even through walls etc. So it's a tough call. Detect Undead would detect ghosts on the ethereal... again it's a tough decision.

 

[scrubkai]

Do divination spells reach onto other planes? tough decision.

As the description for Rope Trick notes:
"Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes."

So I've always looked at it as divination spells only work across planes when they explicitly say they do in the description. For example: Scry explicity says this will find creatures on another plane of existence.

It's a case where if they don't say they work across planes (Detect Magic, Locate Object, Locate Creature, etc.) then they don't work across planes.

In the game we play, if we see a magic bag/hole/chest we know the container is magic but get no clue what's inside until we open it up.

 

[Quasqueton]

Scry for says this will find creatures on another plane of existence.

Interesting tangent:

Say you scry on someone who has died. Does it show nothing? Does it show the dead body? Does it show the soul/petitioner "body" on another plane?

Quasqueton