Eyebite & Divine Challenge Combo

[IanB]

Marked is a condition, defined in the condition list.

Divine Challenge applies two things to the target:

- marked
- the damage effect

They have separate durations, as defined in Divine Challenge. Seems pretty clear from where I'm sitting.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Unless you read the "also" connector as showing that the damage portion of Divine Challenge also lasts from as long as the target is marked. The first attack before end of next round lets you know what attack is affected by the damage portion of the challenge. The challenge itself stays up as long as the target remains marked.

If it doesn't read like that then the power is near worthless against a single target ( only the generic mark effects after the initial damage) and even worse if there are multiple targets because you have to use two minors to keep up the damage chance on one target.

 

[Kordeth]

Doesn't the Divine Challenge power say that you can't place a divine challenge on someone already affected by a divine challenge? If so, then in order to get a threat of damage every round, you'd have to move the challenge to a new creature once per round. Any single creature could be threatened by challenge damage for at most every other round.

You can only place the challenge on a target that isn't currently subject to a challenge, but as long as you keep the challenge active by attacking or staying adjacent to the target, the challenge doesn't end.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Right but if you only do the damage once, keeping the same target marked isn't worth it so you need to shift the mark to another target and then back to the target you want to take damage, if you support the " damage stops after first round " reading.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Walter, there's no possibility of infinite damage from the ranger multi-class Quarry. It's been subject to errata so it only lasts 1 round.

Just spotted that. Although, technically, you get the ranger multiclass quarry for 2 rounds [the round you use it, and the round afterwards]. That puts it on the same level as the rogue multiclass at least, since both effectively give 2d6 once per encounter.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Right but if you only do the damage once, keeping the same target marked isn't worth it so you need to shift the mark to another target and then back to the target you want to take damage, if you support the " damage stops after first round " reading.

It also requires two turns, as you can only use divine challenge once per turn. [Also, if you allow a divine challenge to 'end' by not engaging the target, you aren't able to make a divine challenge on the next turn either].

Combat Challenge gives a fighter the ability to once per round get his immediate attack ... it would make sense that a paladin similarly is able to once per round deal damage to a character making an attack. Paladin auto hits, but arguably, a basic attack would potentially deal more damage [and the ability to do it on a shift as well] makes the two powers similar.

If the extra damage works as long as the character remains marked by the challenge, they could issue errata similar to the ranger's multiclass to avoid the 'tons of damage' issue. Of course ... unlike with sneak attack or quarry damage ... it is up to the monster to act in a way that would trigger that extra damage.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Yeah, I totally forgot that you couldn't even hope to remark the target on the same turn.

 

[xAndurilx]

Na na na, this is how you do it:

Start out as a Paladin, then take Warlock instead of a Paragon Path.
That way you get Eyebite as an At-Will and use Divine Challenge At-Will. You can even get Eyebite as a 1st level encounter power if you choose Half-Elf. Be sure to max out your Cha

Anyone arguing about this tactic not being the "Spirit of the Rule" for a Paladin has obviously not met a Raven Queen Paladin

 

[Mengu]

That's cool. If something new comes up, I'd love to hear it. But I've read and re-read the power, and the only interpretation I can go with is that it only works once, and only within the given time frame.

I'll put cash money on a bet that says we'll get many different answers to this from WotC's customer service reps, and eventually whoever the current head rules dude is will settle on one interpretation to add to the FAQ.

Well, here is the answer I got from Tony at Customer Service:

The marked target will take damage for the first attack each turn that doesn't include the Paladin as a target. Therefore, each and every turn that a creature is marked by divine challenge the first attack that the creature makes that doesn't include the Paladin as a target will deal him radiant damage; if for some reason the creature makes an additional attack that doesn't include the Paladin as a target, they won't take damage from that one. The Divine Challenge then "resets" on the next turn. Please let me know if you need anymore help!​

So they are going with the "resets" logic, which is supported by the wording for the KotSF Paladin, and is clearly the intention. If I didn't know what they were trying to say though, I can certainly see how the wording would be interpreted the other way. Anyway, "resets" is the way I'll be playing it.

 

[James McMurray]

Ask them three more times and let me know if you get the same answer from all 4 reps.