Failed promises

[Rystil Arden]

It does.

I think this is a case of evolved characters who have earned their 19 levels versus one-shot characters who start at 23. Your guys assume they won't beat DR and SR because it's happened on a lesser scale before. My guys weren't thinking in those terms.

Thanks for your post, I appriciate it.

No problem at all. I'm very glad I could help you

I think this is a case of evolved characters who have earned their 19 levels versus one-shot characters who start at 23.

I completely, completely agree with you about this. It has been one of my overarching principles in GMing (if I'm even an important enough person to be allowed to have principles of GMing) that you simply cannot make a balanced adventure for "A group of 4 level 22 characters" because you have to play with them from low levels (we started at level 1) and watch them evolve and grow to know their capabilities. This came up in the thread about the new epic Dungeon adventure that appeared here a few weeks ago. I pointed out the same thing, and then someone (can't remember who it was) posted a few level 30+ characters he created that I noticed were built in such a way that they would have lost in a fight to my PCs, even back when the PCs were level 15. Anyways, this is why I prefer to always start at level 1 and to make up my own adventures

 

[Particle_Man]

The 2nd edition "2.5" of the day "skills and powers" and company were also pretty dissapointing.

Gotta agree with that, as well as "spells and magic". Its like they said "Hey, GURPS has a points system. Let's have one too!" but did no playtesting on how munchkin a point system can get without controls. I quickly saw how broken it was with clerics. If you dump most of the useless spheres, you get enough points to twink out your cleric to an unbelievable amount (wizard evocation spells, fighter thaco and hp, continual spell true seeing, etc.).

Sad, really.

 

[Li Shenron]

The one I was very excited about at the time, and completely turned me off (thank God I had the chance to borrow it before buying!) was the Epic Level Handbook.

When it was announced I really thought it was going to be a _necessary_ book. At that time I hadn't yet had a chance to play (and especially run) high-level adventures, and afterwards I realized that I much prefer not to get even close to 20th level But this I realized only later, so it didn't influence at all my disappointment with the ELH.

Basically the ELH and its epic rules gave me the impression of being (1) completely not at all epic in the feel, and (2) very difficult to balance.

The fact that it had one of the most awful artwork selection of 3ed definitely didn't help.

 

[Infernal Teddy]

I completely forgot the twin abominations of Book of vile darkness and book of exalted deeds...

Thank god there are still some fools on ebay who'll buy anything...

 

[Cherub]

I completely forgot the twin abominations of Book of vile darkness and book of exalted deeds...

Thank god there are still some fools on ebay who'll buy anything...

IT perhaps you could elaborate on why those two books were such an abomination in your mind...i thought they had some pretty interesting concepts, ideas and potential hooks compared to the drivel that are found in the Complete (class) and (race) books and which were churned out as part of an obvious money spinning scheme except to the most daft of rpg players...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

For me, it was Champions of Ruin. I really liked every other FR3E book, but this one is not worthy of the Realms.

I completely forgot the twin abominations of Book of vile darkness and book of exalted deeds...

Thank god there are still some fools on ebay who'll buy anything...

I liked the BoVD and think that is a good (or rather Evil) book. Do you call me a fool?

For me it would be Complete Fighter...just seemed like a bunch of feats, classes and prestige classes mushed together to craft a poor excuse of a supplemental class rule book...when in fact IMHO it shouldve also been about interesting ideas and concepts and innovative facets for a class that has the potential to be rather 2 dimensional in the hands of an inexperienced player

Hm... Are you speaking of Complete Warrior, which was supposed to be a guide to combat for all classes, not a Class book for Fighters?

 

[Particle_Man]

I personally had fun with my BoED Vow of Poverty Monk idea. I see the BoVD as a "DM's Book" and my DM enjoys using it. It certainly adds a bit of urgency to the game if a bunch of wererats are chanting over your tied up friend (character-wise) and you see your DM paging through the BoVD (player-wise). It made me go from "What is this DM playing at? Lyncanthropy does spread by a ritual" confusion to "OH MY GOD! We have to stop this ritual RIGHT NOW!" spur to action.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Dragonlords of Melnibone. I love the Elric books, but Chaosium totally dropped the ball on the D20 conversion. Everything from the writing, to the rules, to the art was completely subpar.

Castles and Crusades: They did what they set out to do. They made a functional D20'ish game that was simple and easy to run. Too bad they removed much of what I love from D20.

Beyond that, I've been pretty happy with most of the books I've bought. Heck, I like the Planar Handbook, MotP, and Bastards and Bloodlines (though some of the races were just a little too weird)!

Kane

 

[Psion]

Dragonlords of Melnibone. I love the Elric books, but Chaosium totally dropped the ball on the D20 conversion.

How could I forget? It's been so long. Probably the first major disappointement of the d20 movement to me.

When I heard it was coming out, I was pumped. I was even defending the notion of a d20 Elric from the smack-talkers on webrpg (you remember that don't you, Quasqueton?).

Then I bought the book. And said to myself "I could do a better adaptation of this on a Sunday afternoon."

 

[JoeGKushner]

How could I forget? It's been so long. Probably the first major disappointement of the d20 movement to me.

When I heard it was coming out, I was pumped. I was even defending the notion of a d20 Elric from the smack-talkers on webrpg (you remember that don't you, Quasqueton?).

Then I bought the book. And said to myself "I could do a better adaptation of this on a Sunday afternoon."

At first as I read the background and details, the same basically as those in the Stomrbringer RPG, I enjoyed it. I've even nabbed the 'heroic action' bit where when going out you can do another half-action and take 1d3 points of damage.

But using the rest of it proved that althought Elric will always remain cool, this game will not.