Failed promises

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Dieites and Demigods.

I mean, I LIKE the book. Sure, its a Deity Monster Manual, but there's some nice info that I've been able to port into my game based on the light amount of fluff in there. I would have loved it to give a Faiths and Avatars treatment to the different pantheons presented, but I guess that was expecting too much. Still, at least WotC learned and hasn't given us that kind of book again...even Faiths and Pantheons had much more than just stat blocks.

 

[Glyfair]

Deities and Demigods 3e - I can't say what I was expecting, but this wasn't it. Single worst design decision made: deity statblocks in 3e. Ruined the book and I've not picked it up since I bought.

I agree and disagree. It belongs on the list, but it would belong on the list if they didn't include stats for deities, too. That's been part of D&D since "Gods, Demi-gods and Heroes."

Where it fell down was the lack of focus on clerics and other worshippers of the deities. How often will players deal directly with deities? How often will players deal with worshippers of the deities? Asking that question should answer where the focus should have been.

(And this is from someone whose ideal setting has the gods constantly meddling directly in the affairs of mortals ala the Greek gods.)

 

[Gothmog]

The biggest stinker for me was Deities & Demigods. All it had was stats for deities, and virtually NO info on their priesthoods, beliefs, religious institutions, etc- you know, the useful stuff.

Epic Level Handbook- the most blah book ever made for D&D. Except for some of the monsters, its extremely underwhelming.

Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed (and by extension Evolved)- when I first heard about AU, I got excited thinking it would bring some new aspects to the game. All it ended up being was a really high fantasy world with fuzzy races and minor tweaks to the recognizable PHB classes and spells. I've since realized my gaming style and Monte's are not compatible, but I find the book highly overrated.

Book of Exalted Deeds- I still don't get this one. Hand-in-hand with this one is the Book of Vile Darkness. BoVD had some cool ideas, but its evil was terribly shallow and icky, and didn't help to illuminate how and why some beings are evil, the metaphysics behind evil, etc.

I've tried to like the new Ravenloft stuff. There are a few gems among the books (the walking dead book and some of the shadow fey stuff), but most of it seems to lack direction and the creepy quality the stuff made near the end of 2e did.

Arms and Equipment Guide- just plain dumb. Kenzer's and Mongoose's equipment books were both MUCH better.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That didn't bother me so much.

The adventure in the back bothered me, I am personally of the opinion that it was never playtested. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't see how a party of four 23rd level level characters could survive that dragon encounter outside the fortress. I mean, use the rules (remember you aren't allowed to spend more than 1/2 your gold on a single item) and try to beat it. You get to start out with that egg thing and that's nice, but I really don't see how that encounter can end in anything other than a TPK and it's the second one or so. The rest of the adventure is pretty much undead and constructs. Bleah.

Your PCs must not min/max enough compared to the adventure's writer

I've found that by epic levels, it is effectively completely impossible to balance anything for "a party of 4 2Xth level characters." You have to know your group from watching them grow (or making them send you their characters in advance and extensively playtesting them) in order to send appropriate challenges by this time because capabilities vary greatly. My party of 3 PCs levelled 18, 19, and 20 (plus one level 16 cohort) could easily defeat the dragon encounter from that adventure, but it is also true that 4 level 23 iconics would lose.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Deities and Demigods.

Look at the most recent Goblonomicon update, download the god in there. THAT is how you detail divinity. If you enjoy statting up gods, do it yourself, like you would any other powerful monster. D&Dg should've told us how the gods operate in the campaign more, and how big an AC they could hit less.

 

[Nighthawk]

D&D 3.0 Deities & Demigods. So far, nothing else has come close in my eyes (in terms of failing to deliver).

 

[DungeonMaster]

3.5. I had a lot of hope that the revision would be as amazing as the transition from 2nd to 3rd edition. Or even 10% as good. Instead we got a "revised" game that's litered with moronic or arbitrary houserules by "some guy out there" who hasn't a clue, a good 40% worse than 3rd edition. There's never been a D&D release to disappoint me more. I've gone through every edition change without skipping a beat until I hit 3.5.

The 2nd edition "2.5" of the day "skills and powers" and company were also pretty dissapointing.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

My party of 3 PCs levelled 18, 19, and 20 (plus one level 16 cohort) could easily defeat the dragon encounter from that adventure, but it is also true that 4 level 23 iconics would lose.

I'm sorry to hijack the thread, but I have to know: how? How would you get around the Dragon's Damage Resistance (3.0 rules) and Spell Resistance? I don't mean on a lucky roll or anything. Because that dragon can take out a wizard pertty easily. Remember how it shows up, too. It was hiding in lava and pops out as a surprise. Some buffs I can see would be up (mage armor, endurance, bull's strength, etc), but not much else.

for those who don't know: this takes place on the elemental plane of fire and there is tons and tons of lava about. And you get a 19th (?) level ranger to help out Rystil's group.

I am not trying to pick an internet fight or anything. I am just desperately curious. I am a dunce when it comes to high levels and I really want to know.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm sorry to hijack the thread, but I have to know: how? How would you get around the Dragon's Damage Resistance (3.0 rules) and Spell Resistance? I don't mean on a lucky roll or anything. Because that dragon can take out a wizard pertty easily. Remember how it shows up, too. It was hiding in lava and pops out as a surprise. Some buffs I can see would be up (mage armor, endurance, bull's strength, etc), but not much else.

for those who don't know: this takes place on the elemental plane of fire and there is tons and tons of lava about. And you get a 19th (?) level ranger to help out Rystil's group.

I am not trying to pick an internet fight or anything. I am just desperately curious. I am a dunce when it comes to high levels and I really want to know.

And you get a 19th (?) level ranger to help out Rystil's group.

You also sometimes get an infernal

Anyways, its rather simple. My group's resident archmage isn't going to be getting through the thing's SR, so her only viable option is to use no-SR spells. If you cry foul at this, then we'll ignore her for now.

Oh, the egg will do average of 725 damage to the dragon, leaving it with a bit ober 700 hp (and under 3.0 rules, for which this is written, the poor dragon would have actually taken average of 1100 damage and be left with 333 after the egg).

The party's second character is an azer cleric, so he's immune to fire, and he managed to get his pixie cohort the fire subtype too with that spell that does that. Also, I would assume Fire protection magic will be cast since it is the Plane of Fire, so I'd imagine the breath weapon will be rather ineffective.

Anyways, Aust, the Frenzied Berserker (with 2 levels in Paladin of Freedom) can't penetrate the thing's DR, so instead he will choose to ignore the DR and just attack anyway with a fully power-attacked brilliant energy weapon, dealing an average of 3d6 + 5 enhancement from GMW + 24 Strength + 60 Power Attack and hitting automatically with four of the five attacks except on a 1 (the last attack hits on a 5). Granted the damage reduction, so knock off 35 to reach 64 damage per attack. Clearly, two or three rounds of Aust's smashing will kill it by himself. And we didn't even let Cornelia cast her no-SR spells.

Now as for how Aust will survive those 3 rounds, well unfortunately for the poor dragon, it just can's hope to kill him. Thanks to Divine Grace and the fact that Charisma is his second-highest stat, all of his saves, even Will, make the dragon's DC 21 + spell level magic spells unusable, and the poor thing doesn't have disintegrate on its list (a fatal mistake, since this is the only spell in the game that will kill a FB in frenzy if you can't make him fail a save).

Hope that helps!

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Hope that helps!

It does.

I think this is a case of evolved characters who have earned their 19 levels versus one-shot characters who start at 23. Your guys assume they won't beat DR and SR because it's happened on a lesser scale before. My guys weren't thinking in those terms.

Thanks for your post, I appriciate it.