Failed promises

[Kae'Yoss]

It remains one of the most pointless comments of the internet.

People want a product they buy to be good. If it isn't they have a right to complain. In his opinion GWD20 was not good. I rather agree.

I have to agree. The "don't like it, make it better" argument always sounds like the petty and childish retort of a criticized artist.

It's so very easy: If you produce crap, people will not buy it. So, you want to produce good products. You want to pruduce stuff people want. A good way to achieve this is to listen to people and then do what they want.

If I do something improperly, I sure want others to tell me that this is the case.

Also, you have the right to say if you don't like anything. You don't have to be able to do it better. The world just doesn't work that way. We don't make our own clothing, we don't hunt our own food, we don't build our own shelter. We do what we are best at, and get paid. With the money we're paid, we buy everything else. Great system, assuring that we have highly qualified specialists that can create better stuff than generalists who make everything for themselves. But that doesn't mean that we cannot criticize anyone.

Ahhh, you're full of it. If one side makes vague generalizations, then don't get on the other side's case for drawing inferrences in their rebuttals. I didn't get one response that actually explained how characters who've reached epic level are supposed to accomplish anything of epic significance while staying in sync with the extremely-flawed "if it's really important, a god or Elminster will handle it" logic. In fact, most replies asserted with confidence that twenty-something level characters are still just bit players and shouldn't be saving the world.

They actually affirmed my assessment of their position, they just didn't see what's wrong with it.

You're overlooking something very important here. Either players are powerful enough to save the world or they aren't. There are campaign worlds where the players will be the most powerful beings once they hit epic levels, and this is ifne. There are also worlds where there's always something that is bigger than the players, and that's fine, too. But mixing the two, and in the way CoR did it, is not good:

CoR has Elder Evils that are comparatively weak, so players will be able to defeat them to save the world. This, in itself, is no problem. But we're talking about FR here, and then it becomes a problem, because the Realms aren't one of the campaigns where the players will be the cream of the crop once they go past 20. The fact that the characters could defeat the dreaded Chaos Hound, or the Elf-Eater, even in very low epic levels, but they would be annihilated by some little-known human lich. And this lich is in the same book as the elder evils.

So defeating Elder Evils at low epic levels is good, but this should make these players in their low epic levels the most powerful characters in that world, or nearly so. Instead we have dozens of charakters that are much more powerful.

 

[Gomez]

Oh dang! I was going to agree with Kanegrundar and say that I was VERY disappointed in Gamma World d20! *ducks head*

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

From 2e: Complete Psionics, Skills & Powers.

From 3.0: Psionics Handbook. (The 3.5 version is so much better.)

From 3.5: Complete Warrior, Complete Divine. Maybe the Book of Iron Heroes will turn out better, even if I have no intention of using its classes.

 

[rogueattorney]

A lot of products passed through my mind, but for me nothing will ever top the 2e PHB. A case of too close, yet too far. Why the heck should I buy something that doesn't really change the rules, and yet seems to take everything I like about the system out of the game?

R.A.

 

[Psion]

I just had another look at R&R: Excalibur. On second thoughts if I treat it as a buffet rather than a set dinner I can use bits & pieces from it; the honour system looks good for instance. I'm actually thinking now Arthurian setting would work better using Castles & Crusades.

I rather liked R&R Excalibur. But I guess that's in part because I am much more squarely in the target audience. There is just about zero chance that I would run a deFacto Arthurian game. But the chances I would have an Arthurian inspired nation, region, or plane are very high indeed, and such a region would have to work with the rules that are being used in the rest of reality.

 

[painandgreed]

Arms and Equipment Guide - They just didn't seem to give anything in this book too much thought. Most things are anachronistic bordering on silly and the prices are way off. Most food is priced to the point that nonadventurers couldn't afford to eat. Wheat is cheaper by almost two orders of magnatude than things like millet, oats, and rye which were realistically much cheaper than wheat. One pound of wheat is 1cp while one pound of wheat flour is 3 gp. My favorite example is that Marzipan is 20 gp/oz while the only ingrediants of Marzipan, almonds and sugar, are 3 and 1 gp per pound respectfully. That's an 16000% mark up for mashing two things together with a mortar and pestle.

 

[glass]

... I quickly saw how broken it was with clerics.

The more things chenge, the more they stay the same...


glass.

 

[glass]

Lords of Madness... And a huge chunk of the book going to the Neogi?

It does? Cool, I loved the Neogi. That one book that's just move up a couple of places on my to buy list.


glass.

 

[glass]

Lords of Madness also disappointed me a little bit, cause it din't have nearly enough abberations covered inside, and like Agamon said, what's up with the Neogi getting so much attention??

That they're a really cool monster that's had bugger all attention anywhere else?


glass.

 

[GMSkarka]

I simply figured that since certain elements have been clamored for in the last two editions and not delivered, they might think "Hey, the fans would like to see this and that, let's see what we can do." It's a sound philosophy: listen and try to accomodate.

Actually, no, it's not a sound philosophy. It's a well-known fact in the industry that the most vocal fan element is also the smallest. It doesn't make a lick of sense shaping a business plan around pleasing that small a segment of the market.

Personally, I agree with your opinion of Gamma World, I think if you're going to do a new version of a classic setting, you try to replicate that setting as much as possible.....but I do think that I needed to splash a bit of cold water on your "listen and accomodate the fans" statement.