Fair One On One Monsters

[webrunner]

Hello, first off, if anyone is playing in my campaign reading this, please stop I don't think any of them visit enWorld but they might so just in case...

I'm DMing a campaign and I have an interesting situation I wish to put my players in (a fighting tournament) however I need to stat monsters up 1 on 1 in such a way as they are slightly weaker then a single PC. As it is, a regular monster is substantially weaker than a PC (after all, PCs are expected to win several even fights in an adventuring day) and elites I think are too strong and have too many HP, is there a way to possibly do this or will statting them up as players be the only real option?

About how much extra damage/hp/powers would it take to go from a regular monster to an exciting one-on-one encounter?

Also: Every fight will be 100% fresh as an extended rest, and will be level 4. Plus, if a PC loses, it's not the end of the world, as losing in this situation is not fatal and it only takes one PC to succeed)

 

[LordBill]

I think where most monsters are weak is damage output.

Make sure the monster has enough hp that it will not die from an 'alpha nova deathblossum' critical hit attack in round one.

Double (or triple) the monsters damage; the fight can't be scary if the monster is plinking away uselessly at the pc.

Thats all I got.

 

[Mengu]

I would do it based on role, and maybe add in a cheat for the opponents:

Leader vs Level+2 artillery (cheat: Use bluff vs insight to get an unfair surprise attack)
Striker vs Level+2 brute (cheat: Start with 10 temporary hit points)
Defender vs Level+2 skirmisher (cheat: Start with poison on weapon)
Controller vs Level+2 skirmisher (cheat: 2 hidden rat minions under the sleeve)

Special arena rules: As you are not trying to kill your opponent, PC's must pull punches, and don't get critical hits. Monsters may or may not.

With this setup, probably more than 1 PC will succeed, possibly all. If you want a greater threat, and a possibility of all characters failing, use Level+3 instead. One might still succeed, depending on the builds.

We've done something similar, and included a skill challenge as part of the fight for entertaining the crowd. Each round we basically had a free action skill check to determine how entertaining the attack was. Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Intimidate, Thievery, and even Arcana and Religion were used for entertainment.

 

[fba827]

while i don't have a specific answer, a couple thoughts come to mind that might help ...

since in a solofight, the PC has no chance of flanking, or other position-based or power-based bonuses from allies, i'd make the enemy around the same level (higher level would offer an equal threat in terms of damage, but the lack of allies to get bonuses from would make it harder to hit)...
Or maybe the PCs start at 'bloodied' thus retaining the PCs attack bonuses, powers and such, but lowering the HP to make the fight 'faster' rather than having the other _players_ sitting around waiting).

for 4th level, i suspect that your defenders and strikers will survive/win longer than your controllers (who only have the one daily power at 4th level) or leaders (who shine in bonuses they provide to allies, not in doing things themselves without allies).

-- do you intend to use the same monster/creature for each PC fight? Or is each PC getting its own distinct creature type to fight against in this setup?

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

From my own observations, while monsters don't do as much damage as PC's their attacks land with much more frequency. So while they may not kill a PC with two blows they will consistenly hack away at the HP in a very annoying fashion.

 

[Mengu]

for 4th level, i suspect that your defenders and strikers will survive/win longer than your controllers (who only have the one daily power at 4th level) or leaders (who shine in bonuses they provide to allies, not in doing things themselves without allies).

Actually a leader who can heal himself 2-4 times (depending on encounter/daily powers), has incredible durability, more so than a defender, in a one on one fight. I'd take a Wrathful Hammer Runepriest in a pit fight, over a swordmage or monk. Controllers will likely be challenged, but I think a druid would do all right in a one on one. A pacifist healer of course would pretty much fail.

I think with the use of dailies, item dailies, and action points, a level equivalent one on one fight would be a little too easy, but it can be swingy on a string of bad rolls from the PC.

 

[webrunner]

Make sure the monster has enough hp that it will not die from an 'alpha nova deathblossum' critical hit attack in round one.

Double (or triple) the monsters damage; the fight can't be scary if the monster is plinking away uselessly at the pc.

Thats all I got.

I dont want to raise monster hp (mostly why I dont want to use weak elites) - I want the fights to feel like they're fighting reasonably equal opponents (although some will be weaker and stronger)

I would do it based on role, and maybe add in a cheat for the opponents:

Leader vs Level+2 artillery (cheat: Use bluff vs insight to get an unfair surprise attack)
Striker vs Level+2 brute (cheat: Start with 10 temporary hit points)
Defender vs Level+2 skirmisher (cheat: Start with poison on weapon)
Controller vs Level+2 skirmisher (cheat: 2 hidden rat minions under the sleeve)

Special arena rules: As you are not trying to kill your opponent, PC's must pull punches, and don't get critical hits. Monsters may or may not.

With this setup, probably more than 1 PC will succeed, possibly all. If you want a greater threat, and a possibility of all characters failing, use Level+3 instead. One might still succeed, depending on the builds.

We've done something similar, and included a skill challenge as part of the fight for entertaining the crowd. Each round we basically had a free action skill check to determine how entertaining the attack was. Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Intimidate, Thievery, and even Arcana and Religion were used for entertainment.

I like the idea for keeping the crowd busy. I was going to have it so the players ould cheer their compatriot on (or try to cheat if they so wishes if they were sneaky), but maybe that can tie in as bonuses to having the crowd on your side.

Maybe, if the crowd loves you, +2 to attack. If the crowd doesn't care, no bonus.

since in a solofight, the PC has no chance of flanking, or other position-based or power-based bonuses from allies, i'd make the enemy around the same level (higher level would offer an equal threat in terms of damage, but the lack of allies to get bonuses from would make it harder to hit)...
Or maybe the PCs start at 'bloodied' thus retaining the PCs attack bonuses, powers and such, but lowering the HP to make the fight 'faster' rather than having the other _players_ sitting around waiting).

for 4th level, i suspect that your defenders and strikers will survive/win longer than your controllers (who only have the one daily power at 4th level) or leaders (who shine in bonuses they provide to allies, not in doing things themselves without allies).

-- do you intend to use the same monster/creature for each PC fight? Or is each PC getting its own distinct creature type to fight against in this setup?

The actual combat is a large tournament, the idea is that someone they're after is a repeating champion and they want to be able to talk to him, and this is the only way they can see. The fights should be fast as is (as there is only one monster, the number of actions nessiary to take him down is low) and the players will, as mentioned above, be able to cheer each other on. Also, it gives an interesting situation, as i'm actually modelling hte brackets, and that some characters are in the same bracket, they'll end up fighting each other in a non-antagonistic situation, which should be an interesting thing for everyone involved.

From my own observations, while monsters don't do as much damage as PC's their attacks land with much more frequency. So while they may not kill a PC with two blows they will consistenly hack away at the HP in a very annoying fashion.

I guess the consensus is to slightly up the damage, and to make sure there's no outright huge flaws ot the monster?

I also want to put hazards in the ring, but that might be too uch?

Regarding 'fatal/non fatal', this particular tournament is going to be explained that they have some high-power healing available specifically for the fight so there's no danger of anyone dying perminantly without pulling punches. It's better for the spectators that way.

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

It does make sense to up the damage some. It really depends on the feel that you are going for, a heavy hitting match or a battle of endurance and slowly wear them out.

 

[Mengu]

For the record, I don't agree with the comments to increase damage. Low heroic monsters do enough damage on their own. PC's don't have a lot of hit points at level 4, and are reasonably easy to hit. If this was high heroic, I'd agree. It is pretty pathetic that the mighty and well renowned charge of the level 10 Minotaur does a pathetic 1d6+6 damage. If this was a paragon or epic arena, I'd also agree with the increased damage.

A gnoll marauder (level 6) does 10 average damage, 12 while bloodied, and a bit more while the PC is bloodied. A 4th level rogue will probably have around 39 hit points. 4 hits over 5-6 rounds will likely take him down. The rogue probably can do enough damage to chew through the marauder's 84 hit points between an action point and a daily, in about 4 hits (assuming around 22-24 damage per hit), or 5 hits if he fails to gain combat advantage for a couple turns. That will likely be over the course of 5-6 rounds. The rogue can probably increase his survival and win this fight with some denial and control using blindness and dazing provided he lands those powers. It would be a fight stacked in the rogue's favor, with some unfortunate rolls swinging it in favor of the gnoll.

I wouldn't worry too much about even fights. Monster levels and roles are not created equal. Use/create what makes the most sense against any given PC to make it an interesting fight.

I think I'm going to have to come up with an occasion to do something like this in my game too, since I like the idea a lot. *begin scheming*

 

[jbear]

What about using the rules to create companions in the DMG2? They should be very similar to your pcs, missing only a daily power and having an encounter power less. Vary the level from -1, same, and +1 level depending on the stage of the tournanment the have reached.