Fair Use of Treasure Generation Tables

[tomBitonti]

As to whether the tables themselves are a significant portion of the value of the Magic Item Compendium as a whole, the fact that Wizards published some of the tables on their own website for free seems to weigh against that.

Thanks for all the feedback! Given everything I've read, the existence of another treasure generator that I just found, and the fact that sites like Crystal Keep remain online, I'm going to post the link to my generator.

Wizard's placement of content "for free" does not remove the copyright from those items.

Crystal keep, notably, does not include the full text of the feats. There is a indexed list of feats, and a brief summary, which seems to make the content transformative.

Now, whether WotC cares about folks using their tables to create online generators, I don't know. My sense is that they don't care, since the overall usage will likely be low.

But, let me ask, if Paizo put up an online Treasure Table function that used the treasure tables from the Magic Item Compendium, do you think that that would be alright?

 

[starwed]

Wizard's placement of content "for free" does not remove the copyright from those items.

But it does matter for whether something is fair use or not...

Crystal keep, notably, does not include the full text of the feats. There is a indexed list of feats, and a brief summary, which seems to make the content transformative.

Now, whether WotC cares about folks using their tables to create online generators, I don't know. My sense is that they don't care, since the overall usage will likely be low.

I don't know why you keep talking as if the OP had photocopied the tables and was redistributing them. What they did was exactly what the crystal keep does, except there isn't even a summary of what items do.

 

[tomBitonti]

But it does matter for whether something is fair use or not...

I don't know why you keep talking as if the OP had photocopied the tables and was redistributing them. What they did was exactly what the crystal keep does, except there isn't even a summary of what items do.

The posted material is a two page sample of the entire work, and (IMO) is clearly presented as a preview of the entire work. I don't see how it helps the argument that the OP's usage is fair use.

I don't know the details of the program that the OP is presenting. If it is an index of all of the magic items, then it would be transformative, and (IMO) fair use. But, if it reproduces most or all of the tables, and reproduces the selections in the tables exactly, that seems to me to be a direct substitution, and not a fair use. My presumption is that the arrangement of the items into tables for treasure generation involves some creativity, and the particular selection would be copyrightable, and that any substantial reproduction of the selection would not be fair use. On the other hand, a different set of tables, made up by the OP, is (by my reading of the Harry Potter link, presented earlier in this thread) fair use. (Even more ... such a set of tables would be a whole new product, and the fair use question would not appear.)

Now, practically, is it a problem? I don't think so. But as well, I'm in no position to give that advice with any weight.

Thx!

 

[starwed]

There's a link to his treasure generator up a few posts. Why don't you take a look at it?

 

[tomBitonti]

There's a link to his treasure generator up a few posts. Why don't you take a look at it?

That is a nice app.

A confusion: I thought that this was about using the tables from the 4E books (but I don't think that makes a difference).

I have to say that I personally (with absolutely no legal justification) think that WotC abandoned 3.5E (by failing to provide ongoing support for it) so I am wholly on-board with fan created utilities. WotC will never provide them, and I consider their eventual implementation to be a necessary part of the product that WotC ought to be delivering to me as a (one time) loyal customer.

But that is a very tilted view, and motivated a lot by unhappiness, so you need to take it with a grain of salt.

(But, I'm also wondering if there is some underlying legal justfication that is real. )

Regardless, I'm not meaning to be a snit about it ... I am mostly trying to say that the fair use question is (IMO) not so clear-cut, and that I personally find arguments in both directions.

Thx!

 

[Sigurd]

I started the thread thinking "what the hey, he should just use the tables''. After some consideration my personal opinion has changed completely. There are all sorts of great OGL sources that would benefit from a random generator - why use material you might not be welcome to. If you use a piece just make it easy to find out where it came from. Every player I've ever known would follow the link to see what they might have received or what they're missing.

Lots of good material out there does not belong to WOTC and we should showcase it more.

It's not simply that you might anger a certain gaming company by referencing their stuff it is more that you have not been made welcome to support the game with your endeavor. Use the OGL stuff because it will eventually be around longer and have more use.

Sigurd.

Players should strive to understand licenses and seek the most liberal ones. DM's make games - companies only make books.

 

[pawsplay]

As to whether the tables themselves are a significant portion of the value of the Magic Item Compendium as a whole, the fact that Wizards published some of the tables on their own website for free seems to weigh against that.

Actually, that is evidence in the opposite direct direction. The fact that they would consider it worthwhile enough to their customers to post it on their website suggests it has considerable value as free web content.