Falling from Great Heights

[Sunseeker]

Yes but he shouldn't be able to do it over and over and live.

Why not? I agree that fighting dieties every day is probably overkill, but the demigod slayer is probably pretty close to demigodhood themselves. Having incredible powers, incredible physical prowess and being on the edge of transcending his mortal shell anyway are pretty good factors in arguing that killing demigods is something he should be able to do reliably.

The demigod killer isn't just pushing the boundaries of human limits, they are actively surpassing them. To me, it feels like you're trying to think of things that are for all intents and purposes, outside of the the box, from within the box(in this case the box is our humanity). Look at the way characters are described in the fluff of 4e's Paragon Paths or Epic Destinites.

These aren't really humanoids anymore, they're much, much more, and that means the limitations on what they can do are so very different. I agree that they still have limits, but I don't think those limits can be defined from within a humanistic frame of reference.

 

[El Mahdi]

Are you saying that it's easier to add mechanics, or to subtract/ignore them?...

In general, adding is easier than subtracting. The reason being that removing a sub-mechanic that's hardwired throughout the rules likely has more effects throughout all the rules than just the specific sub-mechanic itself. Ignoring is not subtracting. Subtracting tends to be much more difficult, and ignoring only works in certain circumstances (not useful for all mechanics/sub-mechanics).

Adding a mechanic however, means you likely already know the effects it may have on the greater game, and it's easier to tweak to accomodate (or, as with D&D Next add-on modules, hopefelly included advice on how to incorporate them).

I know this isn't universally accepted, but the designers of D&D Next do accept this as one of their design premises, thus the idea of add-on modular designs rather than advice on how to remove or alter parts you don't like.

It appears to make sense if:

1) you assume that the PCS are normal humans, an assumption not shared by many DMs;

2) you describe every single attack from the hundreds (thousands?) of deadly enemies the PCs encounter as only being glancing blows: but, unfortunately, that doesn't make sense at all.

3) you like to be forced to describe even dragon crush attacks as "glancing blows", or pools of acid as "mildly irritating", and so on.
...

The point is that they can be described that way (and many, many, many more ways) and make sense (or they don't have to be explained at all, and still make sense), while surviving a 200' fall cannot be described in any realistic way...at least without the use of some dues ex machina, which gets pretty stale with continued use.

 

[El Mahdi]

I would be quite happy to see a system where if you pushed someone out of a high window, that person might end up paralyzed below the waist. Is that too much to ask?

That would be a random table...

 

[Elf Witch]

Why not? I agree that fighting dieties every day is probably overkill, but the demigod slayer is probably pretty close to demigodhood themselves. Having incredible powers, incredible physical prowess and being on the edge of transcending his mortal shell anyway are pretty good factors in arguing that killing demigods is something he should be able to do reliably.

The demigod killer isn't just pushing the boundaries of human limits, they are actively surpassing them. To me, it feels like you're trying to think of things that are for all intents and purposes, outside of the the box, from within the box(in this case the box is our humanity). Look at the way characters are described in the fluff of 4e's Paragon Paths or Epic Destinites.

These aren't really humanoids anymore, they're much, much more, and that means the limitations on what they can do are so very different. I agree that they still have limits, but I don't think those limits can be defined from within a humanistic frame of reference.

Well if they can survive failing so far how can they then die in combat or from a save and die spell?

Unless they have some kind of supernatural ability that prevents their body from taking the massive damage that falling does to a body it is just not going to be realistic to me that everyone high level can survive a fall of a mountain.

I can't look at anything 4E because I don't have the books.

It will not matter what WOTC does in my game you fall in lava you die you fall off a mountain you make a save or die.

 

[howandwhy99]

1d6 / 10' has been standard. 20d6 was max. velocity averaging 65 hp of damage. That works pretty well for pre-d20, but could be surpassed in 3.x.

Another option is cumulative totals, but that can get difficult for some folks. 1d6, 3d6, 6d6, 10d6 at 40', etc. That gets deadly really quickly.

Or use d10s.

I think stuff like this was the realm of house rules back in the day. Some wanted their game to be more deadly with falls. Others wanted less. It's okay to offer options.

 

[Aaron]

The point is that they can be described that way (and many, many, many more ways) and make sense (or they don't have to be explained at all, and still make sense), while surviving a 200' fall cannot be described in any realistic way...at least without the use of some dues ex machina, which gets pretty stale with continued use.

I disagree.

If real people survived from more than 200' falls, thanks to sheer luck, why can't you describe surviving the same fall in game to your crazily* lucky PCs?

* Let's not forget that every single damn attack from their opponents is a glancing blow throughout the game.

Not to mention things like:

- poison (with a good Fort save you can drink it like soda);
- fire (are we going to change the rule even for fire? does anyone have an idea of what happens to a human being inside a fire?
- pools of acid,
and so on.

 

[Szatany]

But aren't single-handed slayings of dragons and demigods also 1 in a million?

But the same PC can almsot always survive being hit by the club of a 12' tall giant, or being fried by the breath of a gargantuan red dragon.

Surviving what would be certain death for anyone else is part of the schtick of a demi-god slaying paladin!

That is explained away as being barely hit/grazed as long as you have HP.
I haven't heard about people (heroes or not) who barely fell from a height

 

[Savage Wombat]

The problem really isn't with people miraculously surviving accidental falls.

The problem is with PCs saying "I have 76 HP, I'll just jump down the 120' cliff, and heal the damage at the bottom."

 

[Gryph]

I would like to see some kind of mechanic for falling great distances instead of just hit point damage.

I think a save or die would be good. That way falling from a great height will be just as scary no matter what level you are. The higher level characters have a better chance because of their higher saves but anyone can roll a natural 20 or a 1.

That way miracles can happen you get that 1 in a million chance of living feeling.

Except rolling a natural 20 to survive it is 50,000 in a million chance. A d20 is just not granular enough for me.

I like the big handsful of dice method. Yeah, they may all come up 1 and you walk away but the odds of that are governed by the laws of really big numbers and if it happens it can be fewed as divine intervention.

 

[BryonD]

House rule I've used for many years:

Every 1 rolled on the d6s for falling damage is 1 point CON damage instead of 1 HP.

PCs are still likely to survive long falls. But there is enough scary that it works.