Familiar dies and is raised. Penalty for the mage?

[azhrei_fje]

In the SRD, it states that if a familiar is slain or dismissed, the master has an XP loss (amount depends on level and a Fort save). Later in the same paragraph, it talks about a familiar being brought back to life.

Question #1:If the familiar is raised or resurrected or otherwise brought back to life, does the master have the loss of XP reversed? Or is the XP loss the penalty for being stupid enough to let your familiar die?

Question #2: The raise dead spell says that the target creature's soul is brought back to inhabit the body. Later, it says that certain creature types are not affected by the spell (presumably because they don't have souls, such as constructs and elementals). Does this imply that magical beasts (as the familiar becomes) have souls? Do other creatures have souls as well (animals, plants, fey, etc)? Does this have an impact on other areas of the game (maybe magic jar or astral projection, for example)?

I'm mostly concerned about the first question, since a player's mage is likely to lose a familiar within the next game session or two and I need to know how to handle it. The second question is mostly academic for me, but I am curious to hear the opinions of the hivemind.

Thanks.

 

[Goldmoon]

I think I would return a portion of the lost xp to the wizard, say half. Usually, I rule any living creature with an intelligence has a soul and can thus be raised from the dead.

 

[Moorcrys]

I would probably impose the xp penalties on the mage until the familiar was raised, then reinstate the experience lost... it isn't by the book -- in which it seems to me that the loss is permanent.

Most of the people I've played with loathe familiars because of their fragility and the penalties associated with them dying... if they're willing to go through the trouble of raising it, I'd scrap the xp loss. It'd keep the little buggers around longer to my mind, especially in higher level campaigns.

 

[Infiniti2000]

1. No. The XP loss is permanent. It sucks to have a familiar die and IMO it is inevitable.

2. It implies nothing more than what it says. There are too many combinations to provide you with a complete analysis, but if you can give us specifics, we can help. For instance, if the wizard somehow has a outsider familiar, that familiar (most likely) cannot be raised (but it may depend on the wording of whatever ability granted the outsider familiar in the first place).

 

[azhrei_fje]

1. No. The XP loss is permanent. It sucks to have a familiar die and IMO it is inevitable.

That's the way I always saw it played in previous editions of the game, so I was leaning in that direction myself. But I thought I might have just missed something...

2. It implies nothing more than what it says. There are too many combinations to provide you with a complete analysis, but if you can give us specifics, we can help. For instance, if the wizard somehow has a outsider familiar, that familiar (most likely) cannot be raised (but it may depend on the wording of whatever ability granted the outsider familiar in the first place).

Nope, the familiars are all standard (I'm sticking to the core rules to make my life easier, adding bits and pieces from outside from time to time).

My purpose was primarily to taunt the party (and in particular, the familiar's master) with the familiar's death. Maybe ask for a ransom. And then kill the familiar anyway. (The BBEGs are all insane, chaotic-evil cleric-types. See the reference in my .sig. )

 

[Jack Simth]

How do you reduce a Wizard or Sorceror to a quivering hunk of uselessness?

1) Kill the familiar, steal it's body.
2) Raise the familiar.
3) Kill the familiar.
4) Goto 2.

Sure, it's as expensive as all get out, and you can probably only arrange for it to work a few times per day.... but you can run the loop in relative safety from a long, long ways off.... provided you've blocked the area against teleporation and scrying, of course.....

 

[Falling Icicle]

How do you reduce a Wizard or Sorceror to a quivering hunk of uselessness?

1) Kill the familiar, steal it's body.
2) Raise the familiar.
3) Kill the familiar.
4) Goto 2.

Sure, it's as expensive as all get out, and you can probably only arrange for it to work a few times per day.... but you can run the loop in relative safety from a long, long ways off.... provided you've blocked the area against teleporation and scrying, of course.....

The familiar can refuse to be resurrected. A creature knows who is trying to raise it from the dead and can refuse to allow it.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

How do you reduce a Wizard or Sorceror to a quivering hunk of uselessness?

1) Kill the familiar, steal it's body.
2) Raise the familiar.
3) Kill the familiar.
4) Goto 2.

Sure, it's as expensive as all get out, and you can probably only arrange for it to work a few times per day.... but you can run the loop in relative safety from a long, long ways off.... provided you've blocked the area against teleporation and scrying, of course.....

Very funny! <-- Seriously, not being snyde here.

Although, I would allow this if it was a campaign in which I allowed reinstated XP for the resurrection of a familiar. [Admittedly that would be a houserule, I understand.] I would not allow it if the XP loss was permanent to the character even if the familiar was raised. The problem is that if the XP loss is reinstated then with each ressurrection the wizard gains the XP back. So it really then becomes a zero-sum problem and defeats your cute idea. Sorry... :\

 

[Jack Simth]

The familiar can refuse to be resurrected. A creature knows who is trying to raise it from the dead and can refuse to allow it.

True. So it would maybe work for one extra familiar death (familiars are technically NPC's).

Hmm.... what happens when you Reincarnate a familiar? Could you end up with a Human Familiar, or an Elf Familiar? Or would it be more appropriet to make a table with magical beasts, such as Blink Dogs, brain moles, or hippogryphs? Perhaps just a table of animals suitable as familiars?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Hmm.... what happens when you Reincarnate a familiar? Could you end up with a Human Familiar, or an Elf Familiar? Or would it be more appropriet to make a table with magical beasts, such as Blink Dogs, brain moles, or hippogryphs? Perhaps just a table of animals suitable as familiars?

That's a good question! My guess is that if a familiar was reincarnated as a type of creature that can't be a familiar for you, then it would no longer be your familiar. It would probably still be a good friend though, or perhaps an enemy, depending on how you treated it.