Fantasy Archetypes and Sub-Archetypes

[Remathilis]

Hmmm....

* Warrior/Knight/Mercenary/Solider: Good with weapons and strong/fast/quick, but not adept with magic. [Rand]

* Archer/hunter/woodsman/ranger: adept at surviving in the wilderness, expert hunter/tracker. [Aragorn]

* Rogue/Swashbuckler/Con-man/Bard: Gets by with skill, luck and charm. [Aladdin]

* Sage/Wizard/Spellcaster: Keeper of ancient lore, can manipulate magic [Merlin]

* Sorcerer/Enchanter/Witch/Warlock/Cultist: Practicer of dark/forbidden magic. [Morgan la Fey]

* Priest/Oracle/Seer/Soothsayer: Speaker for the divine and able to commune with the world beyond. [Thesius]

* Beserker/Barbarian/Strong Man/Savage/Noble Savage: Strong, uncivilized, but still noble [Conan]

 

[Roman]

it's hard to get more basic than that, to be honest, unless you want to include "The Incompetent Guy Who Ends Up Saving The World Anyway."

Which is actually a very good idea! I can even envision how this would work mechanically in, for example, D&D. The character would gain luckpoints for failures. The more spectacular or funny or serious the failure the more luck points he would gain. He could, however, than use all these luck points (basically action points) to generate enormous 'luck' at some crucial occassions.

There are a lot of ways to slice this; and the term archetype has different shades of meaning depending on who is using it. From a game mechanic standpoint, I would essentially agree with your division but I would end up producing quite different lists if I were to come at this from a literary perspective or a mythological perspective.

Why would they drastically differ from literary or a mythological perspective as opposed to a mechanical one?

 

[Zweischneid]

1. The Hero (Fantasy tales rarely have more than one, unlike RPGs)

2. The Hero's best friend (quite often a scoundrel or redeemed villain, con man, etc.. who doesn't quite live up to the heros standards but still has a good heart,

3. The Heroes Love (can be quite martial in character actually)

4. The Mentor (often a Priest, Wizard or other wise man)

5. The Traitor (could be just about anything, including the Heroes Love or the Mentor in less clichee-laden fantasy)

6. The villains right hand (could be Traitor after his treason)

7. The Villain


As basic clichees as I can come up with.

 

[fusangite]

Why would they drastically differ from literary or a mythological perspective as opposed to a mechanical one?

For pretty obvious reasons. Take a novel you have read or a mythological story and try to slot the characters into these categories in an exclusive way. I think you'll find it doesn't really work.

If anything should fit into your model, LOTR should but there are many characters who don't fit your mould. How are Frodo, Merry and Pippin skill users? What are their skills? Are their skills the things that make them relevant or important in the story?

I think you need to take a step back from gaming and look at fantasy literature and myth through a different lens. In gaming, what matters about a character is what he or she is good at because that is what the rules quantify. That is not really the case in mythology or literature so when we look at mythological or literary archetypes, we start from a completely different perspective.

For instance, a popular mythological archetype is a trickster. What the archetypal character does and how he views his purpose are what make him a trickster. How he is a trickster instrumentally is a secondary concern.

Your project in this thread is, I think, interesting for gaming purposes but really cannot be offered as some totalizing system for understanding all types of story-telling and story-generation. And you shouldn't expect it to be -- that is a much bigger task than a thread on a message board could possibly deal with.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I think there needs to be a seperate basic archetype for the perceptive/virtuous character.

As much as DnD wants to run that through skills, mechanically you don't have to and it represents a very different play experience.

So I'd run down the big categories as:

The Valiant - yer whack em types

The Sorcerous - yer hexers

The Clever - yer hey I popped open this trap, stole the magic item from out the guy's pocket, and then found this new door

The Noble - everybody follow me through this door, except for you, you should go that way

The Pilgrim - nope I don't know that going through that door is the best thing to do, we might wanna wait here

I think this incorporates some more of the literary types, but overall I think Fusangite is right on there being some pretty insurmountable differences.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

But I thought that almost everyone hated Jar Jar Binks.

No one's too happy about Red Sonja either but doesn't mean we don't like Amazons.

 

[Whimsical]

check out the noble class in Dragonlance/StarWars/WheelofTime for a good princess class

Thanks. I am aware of these Noble classes and my Aes Sedai started with a level in Noble. I find that the Patrician class in the Player's Guide to Arcanis to be a better class writeup for a noble or royal character.

 

[Roman]

For pretty obvious reasons. Take a novel you have read or a mythological story and try to slot the characters into these categories in an exclusive way. I think you'll find it doesn't really work.

If anything should fit into your model, LOTR should but there are many characters who don't fit your mould. How are Frodo, Merry and Pippin skill users? What are their skills? Are their skills the things that make them relevant or important in the story?

I think you need to take a step back from gaming and look at fantasy literature and myth through a different lens. In gaming, what matters about a character is what he or she is good at because that is what the rules quantify. That is not really the case in mythology or literature so when we look at mythological or literary archetypes, we start from a completely different perspective.

For instance, a popular mythological archetype is a trickster. What the archetypal character does and how he views his purpose are what make him a trickster. How he is a trickster instrumentally is a secondary concern.

Your project in this thread is, I think, interesting for gaming purposes but really cannot be offered as some totalizing system for understanding all types of story-telling and story-generation. And you shouldn't expect it to be -- that is a much bigger task than a thread on a message board could possibly deal with.

Alright, I see what you mean. Yes, you are correct in asserting that by archetypes I meant 'what characters are good at' - not 'what role they play story-wise' (villain, hero, side-kick, etc). That is why I assumed literary and gaming archetypes to be similar.

 

[Roman]

Hmm...

Supernaturalists - This should probably replace spellcasters as a major archetype and include them as a subset - not all archetypes dealing with the supernatural do so through spells...


Since we narrowed this down to gaming:

Perhaps another sub-category could be 'transformationists' - those who through supernatural means try to change their identity (perhaps to transform themselves into a different type of creature)

 

[woodelf]

[double post]