Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two

[GladiusNP]

This is beginning to look pretty good.

s/LASH - agreed about naval powers. Maybe we could add in the four cities you mentioned. These would be, if I am picturing Stempa correctly, at the southernmost part? Altheea is still the most connected to Cresia, but now we have 11 city states, and Altheea is no longer the best on water. The new ones are...

Sirenos - To the south of the Cressian river and Altheea lies a large natural bay. Sirenos, and it's sister city Sirrednos, are on opposite sides of this harbour. Both worship the goddess Sirine, patron of the tides, moon, and sailors. Sirenos has only a small army, but has considerable naval strength, as does....

Sirrednos - The sister city of Sirenos, Sirrednos is lead by priestesses of Sirine. Though it is smaller than Sirenos, Sirrednos is famous for the oracle who resides in a temple within the city. Along with Sirenos, they are allied to Thelia.

Colothus - Found to the south of Lesthen, on a narrow peninsula, Colosthus follow Piscenes, god of the ocean and storms. Colosthus has a strong navy, and a good sized army. They are probably the best at Amphibous assault of the Stempa, and live in an excellent location, with shellfish found in the shallows to the west of the city, and many fish swimming in the deeps to the east. They follow Tarthus.

Epicus - Worshippers of Epardne, goddess of healing, surgeons, and herbs. Naturally occuring hot-springs lead to many seeking healing to come to this city. They have a small navy, and not much of an army.

Check my previous post for the entire list of city-states, that we have so far.

I also think that we should save some ideas for innovations developed during the conflict. (The centaur war-chariot comes to mind, developed by the Ta'Jinn when they fight Cressia and get mauled by charioteers). I like that only the Stempa have heavy armor - these guys can chew you up in close combat, but have difficulty getting in range to do that. I'm happy to leave Stempa's conflict as background - Maybe the Cressians pull the Stempa in through Altheea.

I think that the first conflict/ skirmish should be small. My suggestion would be a wing of Heaven River infantry (light scout equipment) meeting a ranging patrol of Cressian infantry, lead by a beastman or druid. If we slowly add stuff, it will be easier.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I personally do like the idea of the Jinn and the Cressians meeting through Stempa. If they've had a common border with any interaction across they will be too prepared for each others tactics. Letu suppose that there is a fair amount of wilderness between the areas the Cressians and Jinn normally inhabit, but that the Jinn have never sent a Tamarch through that border as they are initially much more interested in their other borders and the Stempa. After the Skirmish conflict, however, the Jinn become much more interested as they view the Cressians frequent use of battle magic and beasts as a potentially interesting new set of skillsets to add to their empire and their tales of battle.

The Cressians will thus become aware of the Jinn through the conflicts in Stempa and potentially aware of them as the jinn begin to prepare to move a Tamarch through the no-man's land.

I was thinking that the little constructs and undead were mostly useful as more nimble beasts of burden adding to the technology of quick marchers that the Jinn possess overall. Not to their combat effectiveness. The griffin riders are far to valuable to be used in combat against anything other than a massive supernatural threat, they would be strictly used for couriers and scouts. And I noticed a few things missing from the Cressian tech list. So a further modification to make certain I have everything right.

Stempa – Mountain based city-states
Politics: Divisive religions control
Magic type(s): Moderate use of Clerics (multiple domains)
Technology: Heavy Armor, Iron, Mining, Ogres, Spies
Military: Skirmisher/Marines, Medium Infantry, Heavy Infantry

Jinn- Steepe Nomads
Politics: Central authority, influenced by council of diverse intrests
Magic type(s): Light use of Wizards and Clerics (scrying and communication, healing and blessing)
Technology: Centaurs, Griffins, Archery, Fighters, Strong Marchers
Military: Cavalry archers , Medium Cavalry, Medium Infantry, Aerial Reconnaisance

Ausel – Island based raiders
Politics: Magical Aristocracy?
Magic Type(s): Heavy use of Wizards and Sorcerors
Technology: Ships, Scorcerers, Outsiders
Military: Infantry, Naval raiders, siege engines, alchemy

Cressia - Plains farmers
Politics: Theocracy with mixed orders and low level democracy
Magic type(s): Heavy use of Druids, some bards and wizards
Technology: Organic fortifications/roads, Lycanthropes, Animal Allies, Bronze, Unusual Ships, Barbarians
Military - Druidic small units, Beastmen, Light Infantry, and incredible scouts

What we need is a consensus on who gets chariots, I would have posited that the Cressians would only develop them in response to the Jinn and that the Jinn would use them primarily to get infantry and magic users up to the front line, but not in their own formations or with Centaurs pulling them.

Are we assuming that all of these cultures have the wheel? Recall that it never developed in North America. The Jinn or Stempans make sense to me as the most advanced wheel cultures, though the Cressians strike me as easily able to adapt it to their culture.

Anyone have any further ideas on the Ausel? This would be a good time to introduce some of the heretofore ignored classes such as rogues, Paladins, and Monks. Paladins as a means to give them some divine magic and an order dedicated to protecting the mages and giving the people the personal attention that the mages have no time for. Monks as a means of training really expert marines and mariners. No armor, great tumbling, high reflex saves, and close in weapons make a lot of sense for a culture devoted to naval and raiding warfare accompanied with a lot of magic. Not too mention that the lawful monkish alignment will make them excellent servants for the runic overlords. Rogues would also make excellent sailors and warriors for a magic heavy culture with an emphasis on working together to bring an enemy down.

Any of those possibilities gives us our second straight up fantasy culture as well as the possibility of combining Junk sails with Longship hulls. Mmmmmm, naval superiority......

Even if the Ausel aren't using Junk sails then someone should be. Those things are wicked. Not too mention Catamaran hulls. These is fantasy we got the whole of primitive naval technology to pick and choose from.

 

[s/LaSH]

I'd support the idea of Cresia and the Ta'jinn meeting through Stempa, just so long as Stempa didn't get too munched in the process (which is fairly unlikely, all things considered).

Whether the Cresians have chariots is really dependant on how quickly they expanded to their current borders. If they met with considerable resistance from locals, then they probably required plains-capable vehicles to win out. If, on the other hand, their territory is colonial in nature, then the road network prompted the development of carts and little else - chariots would be created later. And the jinn, of course, wouldn't have them at all at first - they've never really needed wagons or wheels, being equine-oriented nomads. The Stempa, I think, would have the wheel - their country has decent mathematics, and they've known the Cresians for a while anyway. Auselen mages probably developed the wheel years ago, but who knows if they're using it? They might be relying on unseen servants or charmed ogres to move heavy objects around.

I'm intrigued by the idea of monks serving the Auselen mage-lords. It's really the non-gifted person's approach to mystic power - rather than channeling the forces of the Universe, you channel yourself towards perfection. I can see this catching on big-time. Paladins? I'm not so sure; the Auselen exiles were rather disillusioned with religion, if I recall correctly, and set themselves up as the highest beings in their heirachy. If there is any religion on Ausel, it's probably philisophical or cultish in nature, and not likely to involve being nice to people.

(And monks make perfect raiders - they're so fast, and can jump off cliffs to evade pursuit!)

If Junk sails are developed, then the Auselen will be the ones to do it. They'll probably have catamarans too, good for ocean journeys. Now those ships will look cool...
(Cresians might have a few ocean-bound catamarans, but they don't need awesome sails with cetacean power, and catamarans are somewhat unsuited to the upper reaches of the river channel.)

GladiusNP: My signals are fairly crossed here (but the development of the cities is excellent). Let me try to ASCII a map of Cresia/Stempa:

www|........Stempa
www|........................
www|............./................
www|- - - - -/- - - - - - ^
www|......._/................^
www|...._/..................^............Ta'Jinn
wJw|_/....Cresia........^
www|..........................^
www|__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
wwwwwwwwwwwwwww
www __ __ __ __www
www|....Ausel......|www
www|__ __ __ __|www

The river is marked as a line from the Cresian coast going into Stempa... the rest should be fairly self-explanatory (for ASCII).

Does this meet with everyone's expectations?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The one problem I have with Monks is that they are attribute based. Let's say the Auselan populace is made of rogues and monks with monks taking the elite combat oriented roles and rogues making up the rest of the non-NPC classed populace. That way they will have an easy time making use of the minor magical items that get passed their way.

That's a society that's about 2/3s tumble. We could spin them all Minoan and give them wild acrobatic atheltic events involving specially trained creatures, and the magocracy could be primarily a matriarchy, in which each woman has many husbands to captain her many ships.

The lone cleric class can be in charge of preserving the memory of their history and working out the magical lineages. The society as a whole distrusts divine magic in positions of power however, so they are strictly limited to religious, educational, and medical functions. They are never allowed to participate in combat or bear weapons unless they take certain very strict oaths. This culture lead to the development of monkish skills so that the priests could defend themselves against anti-clerical uprisings. Eventually, these skills became a vocation in their own right, though many of the best schools are lead by clerics who safeguard the theory of the teachings.

Magically they might very well develop runes, since all property ownership is ultimately limited to wizards and runes are a very functional way of displaying that to the commoners and the other members of the aristocracy.

These monks aren't going to be your typical monks, however, bred to a life of fierce service on the sea and the bitter religion of the exiles, I picture them as covered in runic scars and tatoos and sporting wild haircuts and masks with which to intimidate their enemies. Very flamboyant and at the same time disciplined in battle and life.

 

[Tonguez]

That's a society that's about 2/3s tumble. We could spin them all Minoan and give them wild acrobatic atheltic events involving specially trained creatures, and the magocracy could be primarily a matriarchy, in which each woman has many husbands to captain her many ships. .

[Smug] See I told ya Minos was the way to go![/smug]
And I love the idea of 'Auselen Monk-Acrobats' who practice bull-vaulting and are expert seamen.

Also catamarans (double-hulls) are already used as the Cressian dolphin-ships. That the Auselen adopt this and develop sails is also a wonderful idea.

As to Wheels - Cressia again is the most likely to develop them.
Ausel is an island and wheels are of less use on islands, Stempa is mountains and again wheels might be restrictive (depending on just how steep and rugged the mountains are)
The Ta'jinn will not use them because they reduce the mobility and manouverability of their mounts. And imho Centaur drawn chariots are right out since not only will being hitched to a chariot slow them down, it will also make them vunerable (since they can't use dodge etc without overturning the chariot and hurting themselves and everyone on board) plus we're talking about proud noble fierce warrior centaurs aren't we? not donkeys-slaves to be used as beast of burden!.

But enough I think we are ready for a fight (ps I'd suggest we leave the monks/rogues etc out for the first conflict and introduce them as the scenario progresses (ie keep a few aces up your sleeves)

without further ado

Stempa – Mountain based city-states
Politics: Divisive religions control
Magic type(s): Moderate use of Clerics (multiple domains)
Technology: Heavy Armor, Iron, Mining, Ogres, Spies
Military: Skirmisher/Marines, Medium Infantry, Heavy Infantry

Jinn- Steepe Nomads
Politics: Central authority, influenced by council of diverse intrests
Magic type(s): Light use of Wizards and Clerics (scrying and communication, healing and blessing)
Technology: Centaurs, Griffins, Archery, Fighters, Strong Marchers
Military: Cavalry archers , Medium Cavalry, Medium Infantry, Aerial Reconnaisance

Ausel – Island based raiders
Politics: Magical Aristocracy?
Magic Type(s): Heavy use of Wizards and Sorcerors
Technology: Ships, Scorcerers, Outsiders
Military: Infantry, Naval raiders, siege engines, alchemy

Cressia - Plains farmers
Politics: Theocracy with mixed orders and low level democracy
Magic type(s): Heavy use of Druids, some bards and wizards
Technology: Organic fortifications/roads, Lycanthropes, Animal Allies, Bronze, Unusual Ships, Barbarians
Military - Druidic small units, Beastmen, Light Infantry, and incredible scouts


www|........Stempa
www|........................
www|............./................
www|- - - - -/- - - - - - ^
www|......._/................^
www|...._/..................^............Ta'Jinn
wJw|_/....Cresia........^
www|..........................^
www|__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
wwwwwwwwwwwwwww
www __ __ __ __www
www|....Ausel......|www
www|__ __ __ __|www

Fighters take your corners - FIGHT

 

[Morgenstern]

Is it wrong that I read this thread and keep thinking how much fun it would be to write up the prestige classes fo this setting ...?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I don't think so. We have developed a lot of interesting setting ideas in this thought game.

We need someone to write up what the Cressian force would consist of.

I'm pretty certain that the initial encounter between the Ta'jinn and the Cressians would go to the Cressians. Let's say the Stempan conflict has left a village guarding an important supply line largely undefended. The village itself has very few fortifications. Basically a tower from which to watch the fields, some fences around homes, a few basements, and secret paths out of the town and into the hills. The Cressians and Ta'jinn have independently scouted the village and decided that a small force should secure the place and use it to watch and harrass supply shipments. The Ta'jinn arrive first with a force of three groups, two centaur light cavalry, a group of medium infantry, and their staff. Officers and staff are standard but for a signal corps that sends up smoke signals now and again to communicate with griffin scouts who fly overhead, and a very small group of ten of their better scouts who watch the route in sets of two over all hours. There is a cleric and two low level wizards in the group. They use the medium infantry to reinforce the town's meager fortifications, begin watching the route, and keep a group of centaurs alert and on patrol throughout the day and another group at camp. Both are prepared to respond to reports of vulnerable caravans and are very familiar with all the routes through the local terrain that they are capable of using.

 

[s/LaSH]

The Cresians learn of the captured village through their extensive animal contacts. However, the animals aren't too clear on the existance of the centaurs - the Cresians come away thinking that they're dealing with cavalry. While not unheard of, they've rarely faced cavalry, and so they overprepare a little. Which is good, because animal control spells won't work on Centaurs.

I'm assuming that the 'groups' we're talking about are 50-man subdivisions of the two groups in each Wing of a Tamarch. Thus there are 100 centaurs and 50 medium infantry, including 10 staff, with another 5 signallers and the 10 elite scouts for a total of 165 personnel.

While the Stempan city-states make macho noises at each other on the main battlefield, a force of wilderness-enhanced Cresian troops move through the hills to the village. The group consists of 100 light skirmishers, 10 of whom are Delta shapeshifters; 100 light archers; and 10 druids, each with one or two predator beasts in tow (lions and bears, but no tigers) for defense. Their battle plan is to draw out the enemy with fast-moving scouts, bring them to visual range of the druids waiting up the valley, and then charm their animals to throw their riders (a tactic that has worked before, albeit not against Ta'jinn). The horses get lost, the riders get entangled and peppered with arrows, and if the druids get threatened the skirmishers move into position the moment the enemy comes into sight.

Once the cavalry is drawn off and defeated, the Cresians plan to send their own troops in on the horses, and strike the village's defences from within, distracting the defenders so the remaining skirmishers can enter. The infiltration force is to be composed of half the druids and all the Deltas, plus a few of the stronger skirmishers; the Deltas are to lead the attack from within, and are sort of the Cresian's secret weapon against these outlanders.

In practice, the Cresians arrive late (they required reinforcements to overmatch the Ta'jinn occupation force), around dusk. They set up in the valley and send out their troops, knowing that even if something goes wrong, their experienced Deltas and druids can shift during the night and attack under cover of darkness in animal form. Unfortunately for them, centaurs also have darkvision...

What happens next?

 

[ajanders]

Cresians and Ta'jinn, Round 1

Well, I suspect the light archer types are going to die.
As they lose visibility, they lose the ability to shoot. The centaurs also find their range degrades, but they can still manage to strike at a distance up to 30 feet, so they effectively outrange the Cresian light archers.
If they get tired of shooting them down, they can just charge and trample them: lightly armed archery troops have no chance against cavalry unless they run and hide. When the cavalry has darkvision, they can't even hide.
(Ordinarily the Cresian druids would start altering the terrain with plant growth or entangle spells to give them a terrain advantage, but no light means they can't see to set those up either.)
The light skirmishers will come in on the flank to try and break up the attack, but will find centaurs don't panic as easily as horses and turn much more quickly. The skirmishers will be stopped dead, be overmatched, and then forced to retreat or die. If any of them survive, it'll be because the centaurs preferred to finish the archers off first.

The Cresian's best chance will be to put their elite infiltration unit into play behind the centaurs immediately and hope they cause enough havoc to make the centaurs return to the rear to secure their comrades. They can probably do this pretty effectively. The medium infantry will handle the skirmishers pretty well, but the first Ta'jinn to meet a Delta will die before he has a chance to run.
History records his last words as "He doesn't look so tou-AAAHHHGgh."
The rest of the infantry will likely call for reinforcements, unwilling to see if the wolf demon in the Cresian forces has any friends or not on their own hook.

Net results: both Cresians and Ta'jinn are shaken by what the other side has working for them: the Ta'jinn see a wolf-demon behind every Cresian and the Cresians see the Ta'jinn as vile perversions of nature.
The Cresians try to withdraw and the Ta'jinn are probably professional/cautious enough to hold their position rather than chase after them, superior speed and night vision or not.

As dawn breaks, the Cresians have learned not to try mass night attacks against the Ta'jinn. The Ta'jinn infantry have learned not to fight the Cresians infantry at all: that's a good way to get a nasty surprise. Let the centaurs handle it or get odds of five or six to one.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

ahh, but the Cressians have the lion's share of strategic advantages:

After the battle the Cressians dissolve into the rough country that surrounds the town, regroup someplace cavalry is unlikely to follow, and send for reinforcements from the Cressian command thinking that these abominations are some sort of otherworldly threat that their godly forces would be better equipped to deal with than the Stempans.

The Ta'jinn are bit concerned about the bizarre casualties among their infantry, but had such an easy time overall and saw so little of the Cressian's magical prowress that they decide the Cressians were simply a bizarre group of bandits. They report the incident to the Griffin scout in general terms, replace thier losses, and set up a more vigorous system of patrolling, particularly at night. They do decide to be very cautious about their raids. Even using some of the captured Cressian weaponry to provide 'evidence' that 'normal' bandits are conducting the raids. This confuses the Stempan allies of the Cressians to no end, but more on that later.

After a week of learning the Ta'jinn routine and waiting for reinforcements the Cressians attack again. Their expertise at guerrilla warfare enables them to move their men into a position close to the village without detection. Their time watching the Ta'jinn has given them some idea of their alliance with a griffin, though they have no idea of its capabilities. This time their force consists of 50 light archers, 50 light skirmishers, and 100 light spearmen as well as their prior complement of druids and deltas (is their any way we could come up with a more 'Cressian' term for these guys?).

They carefully set an ambush for the night patrol group of Centaurs using the 50 skirmishers two druids and their animals. The ambush primarily works to lead the patrol on a merry chase away from the fortress and into traps laid by the druid.

At dawn, the main Cressian force attacks the fortifications. The infiltration force initiates the attack by first capturing the tower, causing as much chaos as possible within the camp, and using their spells to disable the gates in the Ta'jinn fortification. Simultaneously, small groups of archers attack from hastily created brush covers that surround the camp. A senior druid then uses his spells and bundles prepared by the men to destroy the eastern barricades through which the main force of spearmen pours into the camp. A group of reserve archers takes up positions inside some of the closer houses and pours fire into the Ta'jinn ranks as the deltas work to ravage some of the still sleeping infantry and rejoin the ranks of the spearmen. The centaurs find their ranks dwindling rapidly and the range and mobility advantages greatly decreased by the sunlight in their eyes, the close quarters, the disciplined tactics of spearmen taking advantage of cover, and spellfire from the tower. The Cressians work to occupy as many of the houses as possible as quickly as possible. Those few that are succesfully occupied by the Ta'jinn infantry, who had been the focus of the initial attack, are ravaged by deltas backed up by spearmen.

Eventually the Ta'jinn regroup enough to escape the town where they rendevous with the night patrol which had been returning with the coming of dawn and the dispersal of the skirmishers. Realzing that they face an organized enemy and have lost many of their supplies and men, they decide to retreat, but not before saving face. The night patrol stages a quick raid on the town and sets fire to the fields and as many of the buildings as they can reach with long range fire, and then rides away.

In the Ta'jinn culture this is simply a normal parting shot, though one that recognizes the dishonour of their enemy. To the Cressians it is the final proof that they faced an enemy more demonic than any they had seen since the Jongan invasions. The fires in the town are fairly easily contained given the druidic presence, and the men are encouraged by their overall victory but absolutely certain that the enemy is evil incarnate. The presence of human allies and magical servitors simply proves their insidious nature. The Cressians destroy the town in fury, erect a small monument to their victory, and retreat to camps they have created in the hills in order to fulfill their original mission. The druids decide that the orders and high church must determine a plan to use in case these demons are symptoms of a larger threat.

The Ta'jinn compare notes on the battle and decide that their shapeshifting, nature spell wielding, animal lead, and unorthodox opponents were far more than normal bandits and most likely in league with demons. Likely they did not know that the Ta'jinn were arrayed against them in the first battle, and thus saved their demonic powers and uncanny tactics for when they saw that they faced as worthy an opponent as the demon-slaying Ta'jinn. The decide to investigate the matter and determine a plan for how best to counter or destroy these new enemies.