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Fantasy Arms Race, Round Two
- Thread starter RangerWickett
- Start date
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
Byzantine battle manuals always recommend you fight nomads in the rain and wet.
Moisture reduces the effectiveness of composite and long bows by a great deal.
I think the Ta'jinn are going to have to either get better magical support or come up with some really great plan. If the Cressians start regular showing up with large forces and bad weather than things are going to start going really badly for them.
We got bumped back to the third page. That ain't right. I promise to start writing more and paying attention.
Moisture reduces the effectiveness of composite and long bows by a great deal.
I think the Ta'jinn are going to have to either get better magical support or come up with some really great plan. If the Cressians start regular showing up with large forces and bad weather than things are going to start going really badly for them.
We got bumped back to the third page. That ain't right. I promise to start writing more and paying attention.
s/LaSH
First Post
So far, it appears the Cresians don't have the ability to control the weather - for some reason, only Auselen captains can do this. This is likely to change, however, but not just yet - we've got to wait for one more 'swing' before they're likely to get that.
All right, the Ta'jinn have taken a very serious blow in both the breaking of the siege at Karvos, and the subsequent slaughter of three and a half Wings. Furthermore, the Cresians now have giant eagles, and a huge advantage in their (small) number of terrifying zombie giants.
Although their air force is yet small, the Cresians can make the Ta'jinn shake at the thought of losing their most valuable weapon, the griffin scouts. Accompanied by a small squad of aerial supremacy riders, and capable of scrying, the Cresians advance along the River from Karvos and send the Ta'jinn scrambling back to their Tarthusian bases. (Oversimplification, yes, but an army of towering rotted corpses really would send me running, I tell ya; we can assume that this is the general tide of the war over the next month or so.)
And then the Auselen upset the balance again. As a Cresian scout force is passing through seemingly friendly territory in Thelian ground, preparing to besiege a Tarthusian fortress, the very Earth comes alive around them, and much to their surprise their Deltanes are hammered into mush - as are most of their number. Earth elementals - 20 of them, and the Auselen just sold them to the Ta'jinn. While the actual Stones of Controlling Earth Elementals are still in the hands of Auselen high lords (the only ones with the ability to use them), the elementals are quite the coup for the Ta'jinn...
What hapens next?
All right, the Ta'jinn have taken a very serious blow in both the breaking of the siege at Karvos, and the subsequent slaughter of three and a half Wings. Furthermore, the Cresians now have giant eagles, and a huge advantage in their (small) number of terrifying zombie giants.
Although their air force is yet small, the Cresians can make the Ta'jinn shake at the thought of losing their most valuable weapon, the griffin scouts. Accompanied by a small squad of aerial supremacy riders, and capable of scrying, the Cresians advance along the River from Karvos and send the Ta'jinn scrambling back to their Tarthusian bases. (Oversimplification, yes, but an army of towering rotted corpses really would send me running, I tell ya; we can assume that this is the general tide of the war over the next month or so.)
And then the Auselen upset the balance again. As a Cresian scout force is passing through seemingly friendly territory in Thelian ground, preparing to besiege a Tarthusian fortress, the very Earth comes alive around them, and much to their surprise their Deltanes are hammered into mush - as are most of their number. Earth elementals - 20 of them, and the Auselen just sold them to the Ta'jinn. While the actual Stones of Controlling Earth Elementals are still in the hands of Auselen high lords (the only ones with the ability to use them), the elementals are quite the coup for the Ta'jinn...
What hapens next?
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
I'm really stumped for a proper Ta'jinn response to current Cressian tactics. I'm going to distract myself at the library tomorrow to see if I can discover what, if any, tactics nomadic or semi-nomadic armies have used against light infantry in the past.
One thing that the Ta'jinn are should certainly be taking advantage of is their superior mobility and intelligence. I think the Centaurs are going to start leaving behind many of their medium infantry compatriots and work with their aerial intelligence and better intelligence capability overall to outflank and out run Cressian troop movements.
A big issue the Ta'jinn have to deal with is a magic gap. While they are very adept at facing magical beasts and outsiders they have never encountered a foe with the concentration of magical might that the Cressians possess. I suspect that there are two strategies they will pursue:
1.) Acquire more magical might from internal and external sources. The river folk don't really have any useful combat magic, but the Stempans have clerics and they might be able to hire some Auselen.
2.) Make better use of the edges they do have. This may mean some retraining for the dedicated magic users they do have, but what I also see the Ta'jinn doing is working to train as many of their men as possible in low level magics. Particularly in the infantry.
They're in a unique position to do this since their military is slightly more professional than any of their competitors, save perhaps the Auselens, and they don't have any strong cultural institutions surrounding magic. With the exception of the god-blooded all of their magical ability is tied into simple professions rather than religion, vocation, or aristocracy.
Now, obviously, having five level one practitioners on the field does not give you the magical might that having 2 level five practitioners does. But it does make your force much more effective vs. magic users since you have a lot more detect magic spells to fight the enemy with, more of the low level buff and healing spells that your warriors can use, and more of the illusion spells that can cripple your opponents' concentration checks.
One thing that the Ta'jinn are should certainly be taking advantage of is their superior mobility and intelligence. I think the Centaurs are going to start leaving behind many of their medium infantry compatriots and work with their aerial intelligence and better intelligence capability overall to outflank and out run Cressian troop movements.
A big issue the Ta'jinn have to deal with is a magic gap. While they are very adept at facing magical beasts and outsiders they have never encountered a foe with the concentration of magical might that the Cressians possess. I suspect that there are two strategies they will pursue:
1.) Acquire more magical might from internal and external sources. The river folk don't really have any useful combat magic, but the Stempans have clerics and they might be able to hire some Auselen.
2.) Make better use of the edges they do have. This may mean some retraining for the dedicated magic users they do have, but what I also see the Ta'jinn doing is working to train as many of their men as possible in low level magics. Particularly in the infantry.
They're in a unique position to do this since their military is slightly more professional than any of their competitors, save perhaps the Auselens, and they don't have any strong cultural institutions surrounding magic. With the exception of the god-blooded all of their magical ability is tied into simple professions rather than religion, vocation, or aristocracy.
Now, obviously, having five level one practitioners on the field does not give you the magical might that having 2 level five practitioners does. But it does make your force much more effective vs. magic users since you have a lot more detect magic spells to fight the enemy with, more of the low level buff and healing spells that your warriors can use, and more of the illusion spells that can cripple your opponents' concentration checks.
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
Curses, I was anticipated by the story line.
From the Ta'jinn perspective the Auselen are bad news. The whole purpose of their skirmishes in Stempa has been to prepare for an invasion of Cressia by:
a.) Strengthening their position in Stempa to prevent aid coming to the Cressians from that quarter
b.) Gather intelligence on Cressian tactics and capabilities.
c.) tie up and destroy Cressian resources
Now they have suffered heavy losses and are faced with a new faction that appears to be making both goals impossible as they are increasing instability in Stempa and adding new factors to the Cressian scenario.
That's the larger view of the Ta'jinn.
On a smaller scale, they are delighted by the new toys and the potential to learn new tactics that the Auselen have introduced. So they enter into negotiations with them and try to learn as much as they can.
This aids them in coming closer to goal B. And gives them an advantage in working towards goal A.
While the Ta'jinn do use their new toys in combat as frequently as possible, they do not push the Cressians as hard as they could. Instead they use demonstrations of the effectiveness of their new might to impress their local allies. Ta'jinn agents move throughout Stempa and saturate Tarthus. They argue that it is time that the Stempa brought out their own forces to aid the Ta'jinn in finally pushing out the Cressians with their fanatical foriegn religion and that the time to commit that aid is now while the Ta'jinn are winning but before they have totally beaten the Cressians.
The Stempans surely would not wish to appear weak or be forced to allow the Ta'jinn to occupy the lands of the Cressian allies when the Stempans might do so on their own would they?
The Ta'jinn realize that they need a more faithful ally than the Auselen and stronger than simply the Tarthusians alone. They are pushing for Stempa to go to war.
At the same time, they make certain to prepare for a retreat. They litter their campaign route with outposts of their infantry and thouroughly scout the routes by which the Centaurs might move easily, quickly, and deftly across the land. They suspect the Auselen will betray them and they intend to be well prepared. They do, however, hope that the Auselen will let them use the earth elementals on the walls of one of Cressia's Stempan allies.
At present they actually cede control of the skies to the Cressians. They still use their griffin scouts, but make certain that they are able to avoid the Cressian units by moving at night and taking advantage of the vastly superior range of their weapons. They have decided to leave the question of the eagles up to the god-blooded, to do otherwise would be to impinge on their honor, and simply adapt their ground tactics to the presence of enemy aerial force. Something they are not too bad at doing given their own knowledge of the implications of aerial power and a combination of Cressian inexperience and concern with simple air superiority.
From the Ta'jinn perspective the Auselen are bad news. The whole purpose of their skirmishes in Stempa has been to prepare for an invasion of Cressia by:
a.) Strengthening their position in Stempa to prevent aid coming to the Cressians from that quarter
b.) Gather intelligence on Cressian tactics and capabilities.
c.) tie up and destroy Cressian resources
Now they have suffered heavy losses and are faced with a new faction that appears to be making both goals impossible as they are increasing instability in Stempa and adding new factors to the Cressian scenario.
That's the larger view of the Ta'jinn.
On a smaller scale, they are delighted by the new toys and the potential to learn new tactics that the Auselen have introduced. So they enter into negotiations with them and try to learn as much as they can.
This aids them in coming closer to goal B. And gives them an advantage in working towards goal A.
While the Ta'jinn do use their new toys in combat as frequently as possible, they do not push the Cressians as hard as they could. Instead they use demonstrations of the effectiveness of their new might to impress their local allies. Ta'jinn agents move throughout Stempa and saturate Tarthus. They argue that it is time that the Stempa brought out their own forces to aid the Ta'jinn in finally pushing out the Cressians with their fanatical foriegn religion and that the time to commit that aid is now while the Ta'jinn are winning but before they have totally beaten the Cressians.
The Stempans surely would not wish to appear weak or be forced to allow the Ta'jinn to occupy the lands of the Cressian allies when the Stempans might do so on their own would they?
The Ta'jinn realize that they need a more faithful ally than the Auselen and stronger than simply the Tarthusians alone. They are pushing for Stempa to go to war.
At the same time, they make certain to prepare for a retreat. They litter their campaign route with outposts of their infantry and thouroughly scout the routes by which the Centaurs might move easily, quickly, and deftly across the land. They suspect the Auselen will betray them and they intend to be well prepared. They do, however, hope that the Auselen will let them use the earth elementals on the walls of one of Cressia's Stempan allies.
At present they actually cede control of the skies to the Cressians. They still use their griffin scouts, but make certain that they are able to avoid the Cressian units by moving at night and taking advantage of the vastly superior range of their weapons. They have decided to leave the question of the eagles up to the god-blooded, to do otherwise would be to impinge on their honor, and simply adapt their ground tactics to the presence of enemy aerial force. Something they are not too bad at doing given their own knowledge of the implications of aerial power and a combination of Cressian inexperience and concern with simple air superiority.
Just a few thoughts. The Cressians are going to be upset with the Auselen - but only if they learn of them. The Auselen are playing both ends against the middle pretty well so far, but how long can they keep it up? Maybe then we can get some of the navies into play – though only as a sideshow.
Earth elementals a very nice touch, and provide a very good counterpoint to the Deltanes – who’ve pretty much been responsible for the good run Cressia have had so far in holding out the Ta’Jinn. The fog around Ta’Jinn forces with Deltane scouts (way back, the part about firing into fog to suppress Ta’Jinn while lycanthropes ripped them up) is a tactic that can now be prevented by elementals as well, and walls are less of a problem now as well.
What will the Cressians develop as a counter? Increased mobility again – they are going to keep as far away from those elementals as possible. More magic? None of the gods of Stempa really have earth as a portfolio, save for maybe Mastos (god of Lesthen) and Lesthen are with Tarthus – no possibility of Stempan clerics turning earth elementals for the Cressians then. Druids aren’t that great against elementals, unless I’ve missed something. Bards in the Scribe Sept won’t be able to do much either.
One thing about the elementals – I can’t see them really being adopted heavily into Ta’Jinn forces in the long term. Unless they really change their fighting style, Earth Elementals are just too slow for the agile nomads. This could be what allows the Cressians time to find a counter. For the moment, I can picture massive battles between zombies and elementals – slow motion slug-fests in the middle of the agile Cressians and Ta’Jinn.
With that said, the Godsblood have really been somewhat ineffective. Maybe it’s time they come into their own. A magic missile barrage from two or three of the highest level could damage a Zombie enough to take it down. Plus, the undead are now old news, centaurs now encircle them, and fill them with arrows, riding out of the way. It’s slow, but minimizes losses.
Agree with the points that the Cressian air force is still pretty small – very few Druids have any regular contact with the eagles, who live in the Stempan highlands. It’s also not going to be terribly effective. Godsblood reconnaissance, ground assault, ground-force cover are all going to be well-integrated into the Ta’Jinn’s battle plans. Not so with the eagles of the Cressia, who also must attack en masse to take down a griffon – let alone one with a godsblood rider.
To the war…
Though the Ta’Jinn are still building their reserves, small forays into Cressia are met with heavy resistance. In two separate occasions, zombies and elementals go head to head. Though one of the elementals is taken out by two zombies, Cressia is desperately low on the undead, and the Auselen Mogan claims to have no more (Accords of Helg and/or telling the truth.)
Shall we say, only two zombies remain to the Cressians? Maybe even that’s too generous.
Anyway Thelia is now in serious trouble. Cressia is pretty much back to their own borders – unless something drastic happens, Thelia is going to be conquered by earth elementals, crashing through the walls. Tarthus is very keen to push on and take out Thelia, and the Ta’Jinn place the city under siege, trying to persuade Tarthus into a formal alliance.
On the frontier between Cressia and the Tamarch, the pressure eases slightly for the Cressians. The majority of the elementals have headed to Thelia, to show Tarthusian observers that the Ta’Jinn are indeed the beloved of heaven, and the bloodline of the gods. Ogres might be useful in the siege – I’m happy to run it through, but just want to check if any others have anything else to add?
The Auselen – Cressian relationship grows increasingly strained. Godsblood begin to patrol the skies – but now in teams of three, and only near to allied ground forces. Thelia braces its’ forces for siege. Cressia desperately searches for a true counter for the power of the Ta’Jinn elementals.
(This thread is far too much fun.)
{Edit - spelling errors)
Earth elementals a very nice touch, and provide a very good counterpoint to the Deltanes – who’ve pretty much been responsible for the good run Cressia have had so far in holding out the Ta’Jinn. The fog around Ta’Jinn forces with Deltane scouts (way back, the part about firing into fog to suppress Ta’Jinn while lycanthropes ripped them up) is a tactic that can now be prevented by elementals as well, and walls are less of a problem now as well.
What will the Cressians develop as a counter? Increased mobility again – they are going to keep as far away from those elementals as possible. More magic? None of the gods of Stempa really have earth as a portfolio, save for maybe Mastos (god of Lesthen) and Lesthen are with Tarthus – no possibility of Stempan clerics turning earth elementals for the Cressians then. Druids aren’t that great against elementals, unless I’ve missed something. Bards in the Scribe Sept won’t be able to do much either.
One thing about the elementals – I can’t see them really being adopted heavily into Ta’Jinn forces in the long term. Unless they really change their fighting style, Earth Elementals are just too slow for the agile nomads. This could be what allows the Cressians time to find a counter. For the moment, I can picture massive battles between zombies and elementals – slow motion slug-fests in the middle of the agile Cressians and Ta’Jinn.
With that said, the Godsblood have really been somewhat ineffective. Maybe it’s time they come into their own. A magic missile barrage from two or three of the highest level could damage a Zombie enough to take it down. Plus, the undead are now old news, centaurs now encircle them, and fill them with arrows, riding out of the way. It’s slow, but minimizes losses.
Agree with the points that the Cressian air force is still pretty small – very few Druids have any regular contact with the eagles, who live in the Stempan highlands. It’s also not going to be terribly effective. Godsblood reconnaissance, ground assault, ground-force cover are all going to be well-integrated into the Ta’Jinn’s battle plans. Not so with the eagles of the Cressia, who also must attack en masse to take down a griffon – let alone one with a godsblood rider.
To the war…
Though the Ta’Jinn are still building their reserves, small forays into Cressia are met with heavy resistance. In two separate occasions, zombies and elementals go head to head. Though one of the elementals is taken out by two zombies, Cressia is desperately low on the undead, and the Auselen Mogan claims to have no more (Accords of Helg and/or telling the truth.)
Shall we say, only two zombies remain to the Cressians? Maybe even that’s too generous.
Anyway Thelia is now in serious trouble. Cressia is pretty much back to their own borders – unless something drastic happens, Thelia is going to be conquered by earth elementals, crashing through the walls. Tarthus is very keen to push on and take out Thelia, and the Ta’Jinn place the city under siege, trying to persuade Tarthus into a formal alliance.
On the frontier between Cressia and the Tamarch, the pressure eases slightly for the Cressians. The majority of the elementals have headed to Thelia, to show Tarthusian observers that the Ta’Jinn are indeed the beloved of heaven, and the bloodline of the gods. Ogres might be useful in the siege – I’m happy to run it through, but just want to check if any others have anything else to add?
The Auselen – Cressian relationship grows increasingly strained. Godsblood begin to patrol the skies – but now in teams of three, and only near to allied ground forces. Thelia braces its’ forces for siege. Cressia desperately searches for a true counter for the power of the Ta’Jinn elementals.
(This thread is far too much fun.)
{Edit - spelling errors)
Last edited:
Robbert Raets
Explorer
Not to intrude on anyone's playground or anything - but wouldn't the Cressian Druids have a swarm of small/tiny winged animal companions available? And are they really the kind of people who would rely on zombies?
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
The druids could very well have a swarm of tiny winged things, but I have discovered through 'personal experience(what does one call RPG based knowledge)' that while they make excellent scouts their survivability in combat is low and once you've sacraficed around a quarter of them or more all of your animal companions start thinking about leaving.
Good point on the zombies, noone has written anything on the funeral customs of the Cressians. I kind of like the idea of them being the sort who leave bodies in designated places for nature to take care of. Maybe they simply think of the zombies as some weird sort of construct or creature having had very little knowledge of the undead.
I would love to see anyone's idea on how a large Stempan force would be organized. And any sort of specific ideas on how Stempan society works. Like where do the ogres come from and how do they work in society normally.
Good point on the zombies, noone has written anything on the funeral customs of the Cressians. I kind of like the idea of them being the sort who leave bodies in designated places for nature to take care of. Maybe they simply think of the zombies as some weird sort of construct or creature having had very little knowledge of the undead.
I would love to see anyone's idea on how a large Stempan force would be organized. And any sort of specific ideas on how Stempan society works. Like where do the ogres come from and how do they work in society normally.
Robbert Raets
Explorer
Hmm... I'll do a web search on 'phalanx'.
http://digilander.libero.it/tepec/falange.htm
http://depthome.brooklyn.cuny.edu/classics/dunkle/athnlife/warfare1.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/tepec/falange.htm
http://depthome.brooklyn.cuny.edu/classics/dunkle/athnlife/warfare1.htm
Last edited:
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
Robbert Raets said:
Don't forget that the Stempans have better heavy bladed weapons than the Greeks did, Heavier armor, and worse spears than the Cressians.
Doesn't mean that they won't use phalanxes, but does mean that they should put more flexibility into their formations to take advantage of their killer khopeshes, lesser need to rely on shields, and to compensate for their slightly less reliable polearms.
Speaking of Spears and Cressians...
...has anyone considered that the Cressians might start developing infantry formation in line with those used by the Zulus? They have the tech to create those super neat spears and really disciplined light infantry with the morale to actually try a solid formation.
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