Fantasy becoming too fantastic...?

[ColonelHardisson]

The funny thing is, as Piratecat astutely alludes to, is that a dire-fiendish-half-dragon-githyanki isn't really "fantastic" in and of itself: it's just a collection of mechanics grafted to one another. If (1) there's an interesting, involving backstory as to how that monster comes to exist, what it's motivations are, and what its place is in the setting, and (2) the game master doesn't overuse templeted monsters just for the sake of coming up with "something new" in every encounter, then the ability to use templates and character levels to create unique monsters is one of the best features of 3e D&D, IMO.

In addition, those templates can be seen as simply a package of abilities that can be used to customize critters to taste. They don't necessarily even have to have a rationalization behind them, anymore than a beholder has to be rationalized to most players as to how it can fly and shoot spells from its eyes. A half-fiend troll just happens to be a tougher, more destructive troll; it doesn't have to have been the product of some unholy union.

 

[Arnwyn]

The problem may be that some game masters and quite a few writers and designers use templeted monsters as a means of creating oddball challenges instead of as a tool to add depth to the setting. From what I read in adventures and such, too many of these three or four template monsters of whatever with levels in another two or three classes seem ridiculously contrived solely for the purpose of offering a tactical challenge, rather than as a means of exploring the setting conceits.

Very well said. The problem (for those who find it a problem) lies here.

Dungeon magazine, as much as I love it, has been known to have this problem in the past.

 

[Turjan]

You are so right. It's OK for people to gripe, but it undermines their point when they toss out those ridiculous combos as examples of what is out there for modern D&D. Really, how many such combos has anyone seen used for a non-parody adventure or setting?

For some light-hearted side track, a half-vampire gelatinous cube ninja of legend sounds about right. Of course, I'd have to make a fitting illustration. A gelatinous cube with some long vampire tusks and a black mask should be a memorable encounter .

I think that most people don't have problems with a few interesting concepts inserted into a game. It's getting different when each new enemy is some other weird combination of features than the last one. Although I suppose this is more a problem found in published adventures than in actual campaigns.

 

[Turjan]

Dungeon magazine, as much as I love it, has been known to have this problem in the past.

This got much better after Erik Mona had taken over the reigns. The number of half-dragons and half-fiends in the adventures decreased noticeably.

 

[prosfilaes]

A problem occurs when there exists an abundance of these atypical, fantastic things in any given world

But you can make the same argument about elves and dwarves and magic. There's an argument that has been made from fantasy that there should be no PC spellcasters. Much fantasy, Tolkien aside, has an all-human PC cast, and very little of it has a non-human-dominated PC cast. I don't see anything fundamentally more problematic about introducing a variety of new half-breeds than introducing elves, dwarves, and mages.

 

[librarius_arcana]

This got much better after Erik Mona had taken over the reigns. The number of half-dragons and half-fiends in the adventures decreased noticeably.

By half?

 

[librarius_arcana]

But you can make the same argument about elves and dwarves and magic. There's an argument that has been made from fantasy that there should be no PC spellcasters. Much fantasy, Tolkien aside, has an all-human PC cast, and very little of it has a non-human-dominated PC cast. I don't see anything fundamentally more problematic about introducing a variety of new half-breeds than introducing elves, dwarves, and mages.

"Harry Potter"

 

[Piratecat]

For some light-hearted side track, a half-vampire gelatinous cube ninja of legend sounds about right. Of course, I'd have to make a fitting illustration. A gelatinous cube with some long vampire tusks and a black mask should be a memorable encounter .

See, that's the thing. A half-vampire gelatinous cube ninja of legend is patently absurd. An unkillable blob of midnight slime that haunts the crevices of an ancient inn, that leaves slime-covered and blood-drained carcasses behind it as it slinks back into the shadows, is just plain scary.

If you're trying for style without player metagaming, change physical appearance and never label anything. As the Shaman and other folks illustrated, everything can be more frightening when you don't know what the heck you're facing.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

It's the whole half and half (and half) thing that throws me. The above example wouldn't bother me a bit if it was called "Halaster's death slime" or something, but throwing half this and thatt templates and prestige classes on a patch of goo, just ruins my suspension of disbelief. Even if it accomplishes the same goal. I'd rather see Halaster's death slime made up on the spot as a new creature than a grey ooze with 3 or 4 templates and pcs tacked on any day.

 

[jgbrowning]

everything can be more frightening when you don't know what the heck you're facing.

Like marriage?


I'm here till Tuesday....

joe b.