Fantasy D20 -- PDF Sales Continue to Slow . . .

[Steel_Wind]

Been like that for more like three years, even a year before 3.5E was released. If you're just looking to fill up a book shelf with any old material, in print, that you cannot copy and paste, there's never been a shortage of cheap stuff from 3E days that no one would pay full cover price for then or now. Some of those companies are still in business, too.

Agreed. My point was that instead of "50% off", this stuff is nearing the "free to a good home" price level at the retail end in my area.

If that is the experience in other areas, I would expect that will effect .pdf sales of fantasy D20, imo.

 

[Mark CMG]

Agreed. My point was that instead of "50% off", this stuff is nearing the "free to a good home" price level at the retail end in my area.

If that is the experience in other areas, I would expect that will effect .pdf sales of fantasy D20, imo.

Naw, I don't think so. That'd be like saying a guy selling fried rats in an alleyway is going to effect the sales of a steak house down the street. People who will buy anything, just because it is cheap, aren't really going to effect the bottom line of quality companies. They might buy less from other people who are also selling junk cheaply, but that isn't my line nor the line of most publishers who have stayed in business for a few years or more, pdf or print. The people who are regular customers of quality goods might throw a few bucks toward the odd cheapie, but that won't seriously effect their plans to keep up with the best of what is newly available.

 

[philreed]

The people who are regular customers of quality goods might throw a few bucks toward the odd cheapie, but that won't seriously effect their plans to keep up with the best of what is newly available.

I completely agree. Stiggybaby has a bunch of FFE (FFE, not FFG) stuff at 60% off but even at that price it's not worth my money. I'm not looking to grab as many books as possible regardless of quality. I want to stock my shelves with cool books.

While I sometimes will buy questionable products at extremely low prices they typically don't last on my shelves for long. And I'm trying to be more selective these days.

 

[Vigilance]

If I may offer a radical point of view on this very topic, as someone who writes d20M stuff that sells well and D&D stuff that sells... not quite as well as I expected it to.

I think people just plain prefer books.

When it comes to d20 fantasy, there are more books than most people have money, so fantasy PDFs have to compete with dead tree and they tend to lose.

In the realms of modern and sci-fi, a PDF only has to compete with PDFs. There isn't enough print product to outstrip the spending level of the fans.

Chuck

 

[Napftor]

OK I have to chime in on this because something I wrote was mentioned. I understand that a lot of people are familiar with the Assassin class. The point of the product is not to rehash, but to add more to the existing class, more options, feats, etc. And it's also the first product in a new line intended to do the same for other PRCs. Assassins was a natural place to start since a lot of DMs use NPC Assassins in their games.

Prestige Secrets: Assassins was at #17 on the overall list when it first came out, and was #3 on the d20 fantasy list for a time. And this is with zero advertising of any kind. It's not like it went totally under the radar.

Ah, my apologies, Insight. I'd best do more research on the lists before I go posting.

 

[TheGM]

If I may offer a radical point of view on this very topic, as someone who writes d20M stuff that sells well and D&D stuff that sells... not quite as well as I expected it to.

I think people just plain prefer books.

When it comes to d20 fantasy, there are more books than most people have money, so fantasy PDFs have to compete with dead tree and they tend to lose.

In the realms of modern and sci-fi, a PDF only has to compete with PDFs. There isn't enough print product to outstrip the spending level of the fans.

Chuck

For me, you hit the nail on the head. If I can stand in my FLGS and flip through the book, I get a real preview with the stuff that interests me in it, and I can support my FLGS I'm going to.

That will win every time over buying something I basically know nothing about from a company I know little about, in a format I have to print and/or back up.

 

[Ace]

There's just too many PDFs coming out. I've stopped buying them as well, since there are so many.

JMO but this is true of a lot of gamers.

Also I think fantasy sales are down do the simple reason there is market saturation. Almost every topic ocncievable has been covered more than once -- there are hundreds of new spells, new PRC's, new core classes, new heck everything

The supply of adventures is titanic (WOTC + Goodman +etc) the supply of settings is vast and the supply of utility books (12 new cloaks, 47 hamster spades, 13 bronze gimlets etc etc)

The complications are

#1 the absolute number of PDF buyers is small (people want print for a myriad of reasons I doubt there are more than 1000 of the 3 MILLION gamers who regularly buy PDF's. Heck I review them and I buy at most 3 a year. I just don't need most of them and I have other hobbies (paperbaxks and minis) that eat my money supply

#2 there is plenty of free stuff that is nearly as good and not even taken from others OGL work

#3 most of the products are quite decent --

let me rehash #3 -- because most of the products are pretty good it becomes hard to choose from them -- its too much of a good thing

#4 Most gamers are players and player don't buy as much. This is for several reasons,

first you only need 1 or 2 (maybe 3) characters per year . this limits what books you want. Not planning to play an Assasin? Won't need any Assassin books

second -- support material has no value to you. These books (except character journals) are marketed to DM's not you.

third ---(and this is the reason I seldom play) you are the DM's mercey as too whats allowed. Many DM's have a defualt NO on 3rd party stuff -- this means unless you don't care about playing it and just want to read it, most books are of no use use to you

#5 There is not a lot of uncovered ground. As I mentioned above there are only so many varient Clerics a body can use beyond say the ones in UA and (review coming soon) the ones in the Unorthdox line. Toss in Dragon issues and you have an unlimited supply of
Even lucky souls might run 2 campaigns at a time can only use x amount of stuff. Of the 4-6 extra people in your gaming group some may DM (half in my group do) but they may not play D&D and they may not run for quite a while so they aren't necessarily buyers either

Thats my take anyway

 

[Crothian]

There's just too many PDFs coming out. I've stopped buying them as well, since there are so many.

Wow. THere are a lot coming out and it is impossible to keep up with it all. But I do still buy from the few publishers that I trust, but onely PDFs that really interest me and are on topics I like.

 

[TheGM]

third ---(and this is the reason I seldom play) you are the DM's mercey as too whats allowed. Many DM's have a defualt NO on 3rd party stuff -- this means unless you don't care about playing it and just want to read it, most books are of no use use to you

This fits my gaming worlds. In order to insure an enjoyable experience for all, my default answer is "no". I only allow stuff I'm familiar with and I'm busy, so it's rare I let something from a third party publisher into the campaigns. I buy a lot myself, but don't allow much of it.

 

[Ace]

This fits my gaming worlds. In order to insure an enjoyable experience for all, my default answer is "no". I only allow stuff I'm familiar with and I'm busy, so it's rare I let something from a third party publisher into the campaigns. I buy a lot myself, but don't allow much of it.

I allow quite a lot of stuff but my players don't use much but the 3 core books for some reason