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Fantasy ecologies rethought
- Thread starter BiggusGeekus@Work
- Start date
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
Tonguez,
You raise an interesting point about Giants.
Although, I did have a thought after reading your post. IMC, the giants and the trolls are in roughly the same area. Assuming the same is true for yours, would it be reasonable to posit that a giant shaman might enchant troll flesh to be somewhat immune to acid. The trollflesh then slowly regenerates in the Giant's stomach. One could rule that such a meal is mildly toxic, granting the giant a penalty on his fort saves, which would be fine because giants typically have great fort saves whereas a human population would be vulnerable to other things like sickness or other such things.
... or maybe that's a silly thought.
You raise an interesting point about Giants.
Although, I did have a thought after reading your post. IMC, the giants and the trolls are in roughly the same area. Assuming the same is true for yours, would it be reasonable to posit that a giant shaman might enchant troll flesh to be somewhat immune to acid. The trollflesh then slowly regenerates in the Giant's stomach. One could rule that such a meal is mildly toxic, granting the giant a penalty on his fort saves, which would be fine because giants typically have great fort saves whereas a human population would be vulnerable to other things like sickness or other such things.
... or maybe that's a silly thought.
The_Gneech
Explorer
Re: Re: Fantasy ecologies rethought
That was changes in atmospheric pressure and content, not their eating habits.
-The Gneech
Buttercup said:
Consider the dinosaurs. Of course, it's worth noting that their ecology collapsed, but still.
That was changes in atmospheric pressure and content, not their eating habits.
-The Gneech
Desdichado
Hero
Actually, the dinosaurs flourished for about 225 million years. And they hardly fit the bill of "an environment where everything could kill." Dr. Robert Bakker, for instance, estimates the predator-prey ratio during several key dinosaurian faunas to be as low as 2-3:100. We don't know why they died exactly, although climatic change, continental drift and sudden environmental shock (the infamous asteroids) surely all played a role. All dinosaurs being killers that hunted each other into extinction does not.
s/LaSH
First Post
The dinosaurs and other assorted saurian orders are probably quite a good model for this sort of thing, actually. Things to bear in mind: Over their their two-hundred-million-year history, the planet was largely warmer than it is today. This means more fertile regions (extending closer to the poles) and more humidity for plants to grow, hence more and larger herbivores, hence more and larger predators.
A D&D-style fantasy ecology has to share in that climate to be truly viable, IMHO.
The standard pseudo-European feel doesn't have to be absent. You just shift everything a few degrees closer to the pole, temperatures balance out again, and the only difference is that Midsummer's Day is much longer now.
The end result? An incredibly verdant world teeming with life. Grass is lusher, trees are taller, almost everything more than a couple of years old is covered in moss, and at the very least you've got giant cattle (aurochs, giant elk, that sort of thing could come in handy if you don't want to shift too far from a 'normal' feel). Insect life is a little more active; centipedes the length of your arm are not uncommon in tropical regions today, so shift that to Europe and cower in fear of what you might find if you went looking for tropical insects...
Speaking of insects, there are two choices. First, as Tonguez says, giant insects could be vertebrates with weird skin. There's another choice; insects don't have a heart or lungs, but if you provide them with a permanent magical ability to draw air through their body at great speed, it should oxygenate their cells no matter how big they get. That's how certain giant insects in my sf work, at any rate - the wind principle. OK, so there are still flaws in that (increased velocity equals lowered pressure, thus perhaps lower intake from the air), but tweak it a little and it could work. Then you have 'hurricane insects' that are intensely magical, and wizards seek them out for their Magical Parts (tm).
In general, however, there are two things high-monster fantasy should have: Lots of greenery, and lots of herd animals. Every hill should have a herd on it somewhere. Thus is my edict.
A D&D-style fantasy ecology has to share in that climate to be truly viable, IMHO.
The standard pseudo-European feel doesn't have to be absent. You just shift everything a few degrees closer to the pole, temperatures balance out again, and the only difference is that Midsummer's Day is much longer now.
The end result? An incredibly verdant world teeming with life. Grass is lusher, trees are taller, almost everything more than a couple of years old is covered in moss, and at the very least you've got giant cattle (aurochs, giant elk, that sort of thing could come in handy if you don't want to shift too far from a 'normal' feel). Insect life is a little more active; centipedes the length of your arm are not uncommon in tropical regions today, so shift that to Europe and cower in fear of what you might find if you went looking for tropical insects...
Speaking of insects, there are two choices. First, as Tonguez says, giant insects could be vertebrates with weird skin. There's another choice; insects don't have a heart or lungs, but if you provide them with a permanent magical ability to draw air through their body at great speed, it should oxygenate their cells no matter how big they get. That's how certain giant insects in my sf work, at any rate - the wind principle. OK, so there are still flaws in that (increased velocity equals lowered pressure, thus perhaps lower intake from the air), but tweak it a little and it could work. Then you have 'hurricane insects' that are intensely magical, and wizards seek them out for their Magical Parts (tm).
In general, however, there are two things high-monster fantasy should have: Lots of greenery, and lots of herd animals. Every hill should have a herd on it somewhere. Thus is my edict.
LazarusLong42
First Post
On giant insect life:
Actually, insects already pretty much breathe through their skin; they do not have 'hearts' and 'lungs' as we think of them. The actual major problem with large insects is that they would be unviable structurally. Because they're constructed with their skeletons on the outside, they either (1) collapse under their own weight or (2) have their chitin thickened so much that their legs and wings won't bend, and they suddenly have Dex 0.
Making them vertebrates seems... cheating... but it's pretty much necessary to make them larger than a few centimeters.
Actually, insects already pretty much breathe through their skin; they do not have 'hearts' and 'lungs' as we think of them. The actual major problem with large insects is that they would be unviable structurally. Because they're constructed with their skeletons on the outside, they either (1) collapse under their own weight or (2) have their chitin thickened so much that their legs and wings won't bend, and they suddenly have Dex 0.
Making them vertebrates seems... cheating... but it's pretty much necessary to make them larger than a few centimeters.
Desdichado
Hero
s/lash, perhaps you posted before reading my post? In addition, your assertion that warmer = more humid is totally false. Humidity is a factor of the positions of the continents, not the average global tempurature. Much of the dinosaurs heyday, such as Jurassic North America, for example (where many of the most famous dinosaurs come from) were extremely arid bordering on desert conditions. The spectacular Mongolian faunas (home of Velociraptor, amongst others) was extremely arid and unqualifyable desert.
Predator prey ratios amongst dinosaurs were as low or lower than amongst modern mammalian megafaunas.
The dinosaurs most absolutely were not a good model for a "fantasy ecology" with the exception that a few notable dinosaur genera were large, and they were obviously not closely related to any modern fauna.
Predator prey ratios amongst dinosaurs were as low or lower than amongst modern mammalian megafaunas.
The dinosaurs most absolutely were not a good model for a "fantasy ecology" with the exception that a few notable dinosaur genera were large, and they were obviously not closely related to any modern fauna.
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