Fantasy economics and other planes... unworkable?

[blargney the second]

Running with the "Elemental earth plane that heals itself after a few days" idea, perhaps any material that is brought to the Prime decomposes into simple dirt after a few days or weeks.

-blarg

 

[mmadsen]

The problem is that there are no economic assumptions. Weapon prices are based on weapon damage. All prices are based on how valuable a good or service is to an adventurer who is about to go into a dungeon. The 100gp/spell level example I gave earlier is a good example. I mean, come on. A cleric living in a small town is going to charage a commoner a hundred gold pieces for cure light wounds? That's crazy. But it makes perfect sense for a game.

If you accept that those prices are prices for adventurers (and that there's price discrimination), it sounds like it could work.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

If you accept that those prices are prices for adventurers (and that there's price discrimination), it sounds like it could work.

Yep.

If you all assume all prices in the PHB are the "tourist" prices that people charge then things make more sense. But now you're left with the problem of figuring out what everything should really cost and what to do about the rogue with a high disguise skill who tries to look like a native. And that's not even factoring the large ammount of simple barter that went on during the middle ages.

There's a certain point where you just have to look at the rules, sigh, and say "it's just a game". Although, I would LOVE it if anyone with a background in economics and mideval history would do a write up of a plausible fantasy economy. But that's an awful lot of work for something that only a few of us would really be interested in.

 

[Castellan]

Although, I would LOVE it if anyone with a background in economics and mideval history would do a write up of a plausible fantasy economy. But that's an awful lot of work for something that only a few of us would really be interested in.

Check out "A Magical Medieval Society" by Expeditious Retreat Press. They give a nice, game-oriented view of economics in medieval times, along with an inclusion of magic into the equation.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Check out "A Magical Medieval Society" by Expeditious Retreat Press. They give a nice, game-oriented view of economics in medieval times, along with an inclusion of magic into the equation.

Yep! I own a copy! Great book. Their "Ecology and Culture" is good too (I'm 3/4 the way through).

 

[mmadsen]

If you all assume all prices in the PHB are the "tourist" prices that people charge then things make more sense. But now you're left with the problem of figuring out what everything should really cost and what to do about the rogue with a high disguise skill who tries to look like a native.

A few thoughts:

Most (but not all) of those prices are for items only adventurers would buy: arms, armor, etc.

You can't disguise yourself as a local in a small town; everyone knows everyone else. Anyway, if a Rogue gets a "steal" via disguise, that's fun -- and it doesn't hurt game balance any more than if he literally steals the item.

 

[random user]

Though I don't think it totally works, on the issue of casting spells, there may be some collusion going on to keep prices high. Also, spellcasters are going to have to set the cost at some arbitrary and fairly high value. Imagine if you offered to cast cure light wounds for free or for very cheap. You would be constantly hounded; people would knock on your door at all hours. People would travel from other villages to come find you (a better example perhaps for people traveling from other villages would be cure disease, which is higher level, but works as an example too).

By having a high price, you ensure that only people who really want it will get it, and you won't get beggars constantly at your doorstop.

 

[Sarellion]

I had a plane of crystals which the PCs visited. There were expensive magical crystals around between useless junk and other stuff but many extraplanar powers already mined the plane.

 

[Umbran]

Which brings me to the "no wizard/cleric would stoop so low as to be a common spell peddler" argument. Of course they would. They'd do it in a heartbeat.

A wizard perhaps. But generally not clerics. You forget that clerics have an ethos they must hold to. While not as stringent as the code of a Paladin, a cleric of St Cuthbert or Pelor who uses his god-given abilities to merely accrue cash instead of upon the god's missions is quickly going to find himself without much god-given power to accrue with

You think a 9th level wizard wouldn't want to cast a Wall of Steel once a day for the local blacksmiths and spend the rest of his day drinking cold beverages in the shade rather than go into some horrible dungeon filled with monsters that have names he can barely spell much less pronounce? Come on!

If he casts it once per day, he's soon going to flood the steel market, and will be out of a job. That's part of what this thread is about The spellcaster can only undercut and out-produce mundane steel production by a certain amount, after which he gets diminishing returns.

And don't forget that the guys who get rich off of mundane steel production are going to be pretty cheesed off by being undercut, and will quickly act to maintain their sources of wealth. Similarly with the whole gem idea. In the real world, what do you think happens if you start challenging DeBeers?

On the subject of flooding markets with something in order to disrupt the economy - depending upon your goals, it is very risky. Ruining an enemy's economy can make them easy to conquer, sure. But then you get to conquer a nation with a lousy economy (starving peasants, who wants to rule over starving, rebellious peasants?), and all that precious metal becomes part of your economy, too!

 

[Saeviomagy]

A wizard perhaps. But generally not clerics. You forget that clerics have an ethos they must hold to. While not as stringent as the code of a Paladin, a cleric of St Cuthbert or Pelor who uses his god-given abilities to merely accrue cash instead of upon the god's missions is quickly going to find himself without much god-given power to accrue with

Yeah, but every single casting of the spell for a moderate amount of cash means more gratitude to the church and possibly more people wishing to become priests, if only for the power to heal. Attracting followers is probably a more important duty than killing monsters and taking their stuff.

Whereas keeping the price artificially high, turning away people with a real need for healing, and going around stirring up trouble is only likely to lose your god followers.

If he casts it once per day, he's soon going to flood the steel market, and will be out of a job. That's part of what this thread is about The spellcaster can only undercut and out-produce mundane steel production by a certain amount, after which he gets diminishing returns.

Until he stops doing it. With a flick of his wrist every day, he's now controlling the steel market.

And don't forget that the guys who get rich off of mundane steel production are going to be pretty cheesed off by being undercut, and will quickly act to maintain their sources of wealth. Similarly with the whole gem idea. In the real world, what do you think happens if you start challenging DeBeers?

They cut you a deal?
Far less risky than trying to send hitmen after someone who's a high-level spellcaster.

On the subject of flooding markets with something in order to disrupt the economy - depending upon your goals, it is very risky. Ruining an enemy's economy can make them easy to conquer, sure. But then you get to conquer a nation with a lousy economy (starving peasants, who wants to rule over starving, rebellious peasants?), and all that precious metal becomes part of your economy, too!

Which doesn't change a thing if you were prepared for it, and had very little precious metals floating around yourself.