Fantasy Sex Roleplaying Game Releases October 2003

[Harlock]

I think a very powerful but little touched-on force in the game world(and any world for that matter) is love&romance

First of all, this is a response to many people, not just Angcuru whom I have quoted here.

We must have very different definitions of Love and Romance. Images of half naked blood splattered women with guns in their mouths, and a flayed cow's head don't exactly cry out love and romance to me. Sure, we can wait and see what this book turns out to be, but many folks would like to be heard before this book hits the shelves. As far as what Anthony Valterra does in his bedroom, you're right, it's completely his business, but he is the one that made it a matter of public record with this press release. A book of love and romance I have no problem with, a book that needs to list the founding of a Sadism and Masochism fetish club and an occult church as apparent job experience while also listing a link to what I find to be grossly offensive and yes, deviant pictures, I do have a problem with. Anthony Valterra did not keep this to the privacy of his bedroom, had he done so, none of us would be having this conversation right now.

Does he have a right to publish this book? Certainly. Do I have a right not to buy it? Certainly. Do we have a right to debate it's merits in the D&D community? You betcha. Does anyone have the right to tell one side or the other to ignore it? That's censorship and I am pretty sure neither side on this issue is fond of that. More than likely no one can stop this from happening at this point. But maybe, just maybe some opinions can be heard. Also, I think it is vitally important to remember that Valterra was asking on these very boards a short time ago about a subdivision of WotC putting out "mature" content and that despite what WotC says in their Press Release many will certainly question there involvement or lack thereof if Anthony Valterra is still employed by them. Add to that the use of "This book reveals the erotic side of the high fantasy genre (elves, dragon, fairies etc.) and contains roleplaying rules that are compatible with the best selling Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game," being previously taboo with regards to the OGL without special permission and WotC is implicated in some fashion. Does more information need to come out? Certainly. I know there are a lot of publishers that would love to use that compatible line in big bold print all over their products. I know that WotC is saying they disapprove, but that does not mean they were ignorant of this or not involved in tacit approval.

 

[Angcuru]

WotC should just wake up and realize that D20 works so well, that eventually SOMEONE is going to publish material about ANYTHING IMAGINABLE. If you can think of it, chances are some has published, in in the process of publishing, or is eventually going to publish it.

I can see it now: Adamantine Chef for the d20 system.

 

[Angcuru]

First of all, this is a response to many people, not just Angcuru whom I have quoted here.

We must have very different definitions of Love and Romance....

Umm...... I never went into detail about what I define as Romance/Love, but sexuality is an undeniable part of it. Fetishes and morbid activities are NOT, though.

I have NO idea where you got that blood spatter ladies about to blow their own brains out while holding severed cow's heads stuff from. You have some bad sushi or something?

 

[Harlock]

Umm...... I never went into detail about what I define as Romance/Love, but sexuality is an undeniable part of it. Fetishes and morbid activities are NOT, though.

I have NO idea where you got that blood spatter ladies about to blow their own brains out while holding severed cow's heads stuff from. You have some bad sushi or something?

Nope, not bad sushi. There's a link in the press release that touts the talents of the photographer they used for the art. Follow that link and check out his gallery. This is used in this advertisement to show us how great this photographer is. I don;t think it's that great. You won't be confused after you see a sample of his works, I assure you.

 

[GameMaster_Press]

This thread is really beginning to get nasty.
Hey, can't some of us disagree with one another without resorting to slaps at each other?

I haven't posted on this before, but I'd like to say that I believe this is an irresponsible product to create. I am not saying that AV hasn't the right to publish it, but to do so while an exec at WoC is hurtful to that company and to the whole d20 system. I can't see how AV will be able to continue in his current position. I am certain that there are numerous stockholders in Hasbro that will be chomping at the bit to run him off.
In my opinion, this makes gamers look like freaks. I remember when we had to put up with all the crap from people back in the 80's, and it wasn't fun.
This is bad for all of us and should be deplored by any serious gamer, on principle, especially if put out by someone with such a high profile.

 

[Cedric]

You know what would impress me greatly? If they commissioned Olivia to do some of the artwork.

If you are in a large bookstore sometimes, see if they have any of her works, like "Let Them Eat Cheesecake."

I believe most people would re-evaluate their opinion of erotic art based on her drawings alone.

Cedric

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Images of half naked blood splattered women with guns in their mouths, and a flayed cow's head don't exactly cry out love and romance to me.

But is that what's going to be in the book? Sure, the photographer involved in the project did such pictures, but that doesn't indicate what will be included in this material. Indeed, there are many other pictures in the gallery, a lot of which seemed far more fitting. Yet, rather than point at the artwork that is (quite logically) more akin to this book's theme, you'd rather point at the pictures who's content is quite the opposite and base your rejection of the book on those.

Indeed, only one image has been directly associated with this project: The one in the report.

A book of love and romance I have no problem with, a book that needs to list the founding of a Sadism and Masochism fetish club and an occult church as apparent job experience while also listing a link to what I find to be grossly offensive and yes, deviant pictures, I do have a problem with.

This is, indeed, what more attracts me to it: I know that whatever take Anthony gives this material won't be the squeaky-clean white-wedding take that most people are comfortable discussing (itself an oddity since it seems to be more and more the minority). Rather, it will address sex in a straight-forward, non-taboo, direct manner that won't pander words or dance around social norms.

Anthony Valterra did not keep this to the privacy of his bedroom, had he done so, none of us would be having this conversation right now.

Indeed. Having made known his own lifestyle, the bigotry of many has so easily bubbled to the surface.

Add to that the use of "This book reveals the erotic side of the high fantasy genre (elves, dragon, fairies etc.) and contains roleplaying rules that are compatible with the best selling Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game," being previously taboo with regards to the OGL without special permission and WotC is implicated in some fashion.

I still question if that was from Anthony himself or written by the reporter that posted the story. Indeed, the story does not read like a press release at all.

 

[Harlock]

Umm...... I never went into detail about what I define as Romance/Love, but sexuality is an undeniable part of it. Fetishes and morbid activities are NOT, though.

I have NO idea where you got that blood spatter ladies about to blow their own brains out while holding severed cow's heads stuff from. You have some bad sushi or something?

To be more clear on why I said what I did directly to you is that you said this, ". I think a very powerful but little touched-on force in the game world(and any world for that matter) is love&romance. Sure, most of that can be dealt with through good role-play, but eventually things start to get intimate, and that's where this book comes in."

But from the sounds of the Press release, especially in going so far as to indicate the founding of an S&M club and using a fetish photographer as selling points, or at least as proof they have a background in this field, this book is indeed more about Bondage and Fetishism than about love. Again, I could be wrong, but the inclusion of these items on the tip sheet seem to indicate what we have in store for this book.

 

[Ghostwind]

Here's a quote from one of the book's designers which was posted on RPGnet's forums:

"Hi folks.

My name is Eliza Gauger, and I'm one of the artists working on this project. I'm also a longtime gamer and will probably be modelling for this project, as well. We'll see.

The fact that there's been such a huge response in less than 24 hours since the press release gladdens my heart. It means there's interest, be it positive or negative.

The blonde elf girl is a local model, and the image itself hasn't been altered except to add the pointy ears and the background. Everything else is real. Actually, most everyone in the book are local models. And not all of them are going to look like Vallejo paintings, either. Frankly, that's a relief to me. I'm so, SO tired of the rippling-muscles, flowing-hair genre. There's going to be a fair amount of that, but not everything. (I bet a bunch of you are going to start bitching about fat chicks now, right? )

While I'm on the subject, not everything in the book is going to be cheesecake. Some of it is horror-based, some of it just realism, etc. And no, there's no pornography. This stuff is going to be a hell of a lot less pornographic than, say, Playboy. And it's not fetishistic, either. Doug CAN photograph other things, y'know...

its call HYPE.
its what Advertiser do. They make something sound Better or more scandleous that it actual is to get ppls attention.

A-yep. Mind you, I haven't read the finished product yet, so maybe I'll eat my words later on. But I think Valterra is smarter than to throw away intelligent interest in the book by making it a big fluff piece.

As for Wizards' response: Eh. They sell Pokemon for a living, so we can't expect them to approve of anything with more than a PG rating."

Gee, sounds like it might not be as vile as everyone is predicting...

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Wow...even Mongoose stuff is more pornographic than Playboy.