Fantasy Stories That Don’t Romanticise the Past

[Parmandur]

I’d say it’s so grimdark, HBO show, “everyone sucks, always”, that it cannot count. It doesn’t look fondly or kindly on anything, to a degree that felt very forced by the time I was done reading the second one (that I read, idk if it was strictly in order but I think so, it’s been a long time), and even in the first one the whole climax, the “twists”, the whole vibe felt like a r/writingprompts story where the prompt was “write a compelling story where literally no one that is remotely likeable or in any way good can be said to achieve anything or get any part of what they try to achieve, and the worst of a bad bunch win.”

Saying it’s an example of not romanticizing the past….is technically true, but ultimately kinda a bad example IMO.


Lol sorry rant over

Proposal: primary edgelordocity is just the toxic mirror of Romantacism.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No, medieval romance is a specific genre

True - and not fantasy.

out of which modern fantasy has directly grown

False. Even if you are claiming “modern fantasy grew from Tolkien” (not true but a common misconception) he despised medieval romance and was inspired by earlier sources, such as Beowulf.

Where is you chain of inspiration connecting Medieval romance to K-pop Demon Hunters?

 

[Autumnal]

It’s crucial to the overall development of. Abercrombie’s story, through the three trilogies, that a bunch of people do rise to the challenges of their times. Often they’re as surprised themselves as th reader is about who they turn out to be.

 

[Parmandur]

It’s crucial to the overall development of. Abercrombie’s story, through the three trilogies, that a bunch of people do rise to the challenges of their times. Often they’re as surprised themselves as th reader is about who they turn out to be.

I think J. R. R. Tolkien would have really enjoyed Abercrombie, actually, in spite of some out there trying to cast them as inherent opposites.

 

[Autumnal]

I think so too. The revelations at the climax of The First Law and An Age Of Madness are like textbook examples of catastrophe and eucatastrophe.

 

[Clint_L]

True - and not fantasy.

No, it's the progenitor for fantasy.

False. Even if you are claiming “modern fantasy grew from Tolkien” (not true but a common misconception) he despised medieval romance and was inspired by earlier sources, such as Beowulf.

You are just completely wrong. Not only did Tolkien not "despise medieval romance," he taught it and worked on it. I am looking at my copy of his esteemed translation of Sir Gawain, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo on my shelf right now. He was an acclaimed expert on Medieval romance. The structure of LotR owes far more to Medieval romance, and to Milton and the King James Bible, than it does to Beowulf (I also own his translation of Beowulf, though I prefer using the Heaney).

Modern fantasy did not "grow" from Tolkien (it grew from Medieval romances), but he is by far the most impactful 20th C. fantasy author. Edit: though you could make a case for George Lucas.

Edit: it terms of setting, you can definitely see the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon and Nordic influence on LotR in terms of the sense of a gradually declining world, though ultimately the Christain framing is much more integral. Though Beowulf is, itself, a Christian text, or at least a Christianized text probably drawn from earlier, pre-Christian origins (its ultimate origins are shrouded in mystery).

Where is you chain of inspiration connecting Medieval romance to K-pop Demon Hunters?

?????

Look, this isn't even debatable, and I don't see how anyone can deny the direct lineage of Medieval romance to the Romantic/Victorian Medievalist revival (c.f. Scott, Tennyson) to 2oth C. fantasy. This is not exactly my hot take; it's a well established and studied field in literature.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No, it's the progenitor for fantasy.

It’s the progenitor of all modern European fiction. The events depicted were real to their audience, no more fantastical than a modern Action movie or Rom Com.

he taught it and worked on it.

Which is not conducive to liking something. LotR was written specifically to try and counter the influence of “new fangled Norman nonsense” and return to Saxon mythology. Gawain and the Green Knight? 8th century Irish origin. Nothing to do with Arthur.

think you are out of your league if you don't recognize the direct lineage of Medieval romance to the Victorian Medievalist revival to 2oth C

And how do you get from there to the K-Pop Demon Hunters? I think you might be the one out of your depth, by being out of touch with modern popular fiction. Modern fantasy has many influences, some of them not even remotely European.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I’d say it’s so grimdark, HBO show, “everyone sucks, always”, that it cannot count. It doesn’t look fondly or kindly on anything, to a degree that felt very forced by the time I was done reading the second one (that I read, idk if it was strictly in order but I think so, it’s been a long time), and even in the first one the whole climax, the “twists”, the whole vibe felt like a r/writingprompts story where the prompt was “write a compelling story where literally no one that is remotely likeable or in any way good can be said to achieve anything or get any part of what they try to achieve, and the worst of a bad bunch win.”

Saying it’s an example of not romanticizing the past….is technically true, but ultimately kinda a bad example IMO.


Lol sorry rant over

Don't apologise, I love a good rant.

I'll take technically correct. It's my favourite type of correct.