Fantasy with d20 modern classes... help.

Dagger of Lath

First Post
At rather short notice I've been roped into running a D&D fantasy game for my group. However the group wants to use the attribute-based classes from D20 modern. The real problem is including spell-casting and other special abilities into the mix.

I've created three new feats; Prestige (arcane), True Faith (Divine), Awakened Mind (Psionic). Each of which grants a special ability from the default class of that kind, (e.g. Summon familiar for Prestige, turn undead for True Faith), and unlocks spellcasting feats. The spellcasting feats are one each for the schools, domains and whatever the hell psionic thingies are called (sorry, mental blank) enabling you to cast spells from that school/etc.

My problem is determining how to work spells/day, caster level and spells known since there are no longer spellcasting classes. I want to make it skill based, determining those factors from spellcraft for arcane casters, psicraft for psionicists and a new skill for divine casters (just to make it wisdom based, which is why I'm not using the traditional knowledge: religion).

Anyone have any ideas for a system based along these lines?
 

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Well, this is what I have already as a preliminary or near-finished set-up for a lower-than-standard-level-of-magic D&D campaign, with regards to spellcasting.

It's meant for use with the standard D&D classes but replacing the spellcasting classes with additional mundane classes, the generalist (stats are just like it sounds) and scion (more skill-and-feat-oriented than the generalist, less directly combat-capable).

However, these spellcasting rules would probably work fine with D20 Modern classes, with only one or two little tweaks. Add Spellcraft to the class skill list of the Smart Hero/Ordinary (and probably also the Dedicated and Charismatic Heroes/Ordinaries), or just put it in as part of an Occupation's benefits (though that wouldn't work for characters who choose to become spellcasters later rather than at 1st-level). Replace instances of Knowledge (arcana) in the following descriptions with D20 Modern's version which is Knowledge (arcane lore), or maybe it was Knowledge (occult lore) in D20M.......

I only have the guidelines and feats for duplicating wizardly spellcasting so far, but you can probably extrapolate easily enough from that to make equivalent feats and guidelines for bardic, clerical, druidic, paladinesque, rangeresque, and sorcerous spellcasting. Not quite sure what to suggest for those right now, though of course there should be slightly fewer feats required (and slightly different prerequisites) for the bardic spells progression, and slighter fewer still for the paladinesque and rangeresque spell progressions.

Also, I do not have any details in my notes yet for how to handle metamagic feats with this set-up, since it eliminates spell slots (the Spellcraft DC to cast more wizard spells that day just increases with each such spell already cast or fizzled). I do not have details yet on the minor differences for spellbooks and such in this setp-up, nor do I have details yet on how magerods and spellstaves (essentially alternatives to spellbooks) would work/be statted.

A note: since this stuff is meant for a somewhat-lower amount of magic prevalence (moreso with regards to magic items and magical monsters than with spellcasting), I also have a few more feats available for use with it; Apothecary gives some minor benefits regarding the use of certain skills; Chirurgeon allows more advanced uses of the Heal skill for surgery and such; Diverse gives extra skill points each level for use with a few non-actiony skills (Appraise, Craft, Knowledge, etc.); Great Versatility grants three bonus class skills of choice, but they have to be very specific (not 'all Craft skills' or the like). These things may not be relevant to your game, but if you are intending to go lower-magic with the D20 Modern classes in use, then it's something you may consider.

Wizards:
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A Knowledge [arcana] check is needed to learn a new wizard spell, and in order to learn a wizard spell, the character needs an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level, as well as at least 2 ranks of Knowledge [arcana] per spell level (1 rank for 0-level spells). To learn the spell is a check against DC 15 + the spell's level. Maximum number of wizard spells known is Intelligence modifier + the number of Knowledge [arcana] ranks possessed, but a spellbook, magerod, or spellstave allows twice that many to be known, if all are stored in the item.

Casting a wizard spell requires an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level, and also requires a Spellcraft check against a DC of 10 + double the spell's level. Failing the Spellcraft check by less than 5 points results in the spell fizzling after spending only a move-equivalent action in the attempted casting, but it still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal for casting a spell. If casting defensively, the Concentration check is made first, and no Spellcraft check is necessary if the Concentration check fails. Failing the Spellcraft check by 5 or more points results in spending the entire normal casting time before the spell fizzles, as well as the caster suffering 1 point of subdual damage plus an additional 1 point per spell level. If the caster is immune to subdual damage, they instead take normal damage.

Each wizard spell successfully cast, or each one that failed by 5+ points on the Spellcraft check, increases the Spellcraft DC for wizard spells for the rest of the day. This increase is +1 DC per 3 spell levels, rounded up. Cannot take 10 or take 20 on the Knowledge and Spellcraft checks for these purposes. The character can only cast wizard spells they have prepared that day. Only 1 spell per rank of Knowledge [arcana] can be prepared each day, plus a number of spells equal to the character's Intelligence modifier. Preparing a spell takes 10 minutes. A prepared spell can be replaced by preparing a different spell, but this takes an additional 10 minutes.

If the character uses a spellbook, magerod, or spellstave to know more spells than they could through memory alone, then they must have that item present and study it while preparing their spells, or else they cannot prepare any wizard spells. A prepared spell remains prepared until 24 hours have passed since its preparation, or until replaced by another prepared spell. Casting a spell does not remove it from memory. Only spells from the wizard spell list can be learned and cast as wizard spells. The wizard spell list is not considered to be your spell list unless you have the Wizard feat or the Specialist Wizard feat. If you have neither feat, then only the wizard spells you actually know are considered part of your spell list. The save DC for any saving throws against a wizard spell is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the caster's Intelligence modifier.
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Wizardly Spellcasting Feats:
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Arch Wizard (General)
Your wizardly spellcasting abilities are practically unsurpassed.
Prerequisites: Int 19+, Knowledge [arcana] 18+ ranks, Spellcraft 9+ ranks, Great Wizard feat, Journeyman Wizard feat, Master Wizard feat, Wizard feat or Specialist Wizard feat
Benefit: You now gain the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells of 9th-level, with the proper skills and ranks. You automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 9th-level, which counts toward your normal limits. Every time you learn a 9th-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 9th-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower. Separately from that, your base skill points per level are reduced by 1 with all classes and hit dice you have and may later gain, but this particular reduction will not reduce it to less than 1 skill point per level. Skill points lost by learning spells are factored in after this reduction. Lastly, upon gaining this feat, you henceforth gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge [arcana] and Spellcraft checks.



Great Wizard (General)
Your wizardly spellcasting abilities have grown much stronger.
Prerequisites: Int 15+, Knowledge [arcana] 10+ ranks, Spellcraft 5+ ranks, Journeyman Wizard feat, Wizard feat or Specialist Wizard feat
Benefit: You now gain the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells of 5th-level and 6th-level, with the proper skills and ranks. You automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 5th-level, which counts toward your normal limits. Every time you learn a 5th-level or 6th-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 5th- or 6th-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower. Separately from that, your base skill points per level are reduced by 1 with all classes and hit dice you have and may later gain, but this particular reduction will not reduce it to less than 1 skill point per level. Skill points lost by learning spells are factored in after this reduction.



Journeyman Wizard (General)
Your wizardly spellcasting abilities have improved.
Prerequisites: Int 13+, Knowledge [arcana] 6+ ranks, Spellcraft 3+ ranks, Wizard feat or Specialist Wizard feat
Benefit: You now gain the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells of 3rd-level and 4th-level, with the proper skills and ranks. You automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 3rd-level, which counts toward your normal limits. Every time you learn a 3rd-level or 4th-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 3rd- or 4th-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower. Separately from that, your base skill points per level are reduced by 1 with all classes and hit dice you have and may later gain, but this particular reduction will not reduce it to less than 1 skill point per level. Skill points lost by learning spells are factored in after this reduction.



Master Wizard (General)
Your wizardly spellcasting abilities are incredibly powerful and advanced.
Prerequisites: Int 17+, Knowledge [arcana] 14+ ranks, Spellcraft 7+ ranks, Great Wizard feat, Journeyman Wizard feat, Wizard feat or Specialist Wizard feat
Benefit: You now gain the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells of 7th-level and 8th-level, with the proper skills and ranks. You automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 7th-level, which counts toward your normal limits. Every time you learn a 7th-level or 8th-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 7th- or 8th-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower. Separately from that, your base skill points per level are reduced by 1 with all classes and hit dice you have and may later gain, but this particular reduction will not reduce it to less than 1 skill point per level. Skill points lost by learning spells are factored in after this reduction.



Specialist Wizard (General)
You have learned to cast arcane magic spells, through study and rote formulas. However, your arcane studies have focused on only certain kinds of magic.
Prerequisites: Int 11+, Spellcraft 1+ ranks
Benefit: Knowledge [arcana] is a permanent class skill for you, at this level and all levels gained henceforth. You henceforth have the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells, but you are limited to learning and casting wizard spells of only 2nd-level and lower. At the level you gain this feat, you acquire 1 free rank in Knowledge [arcana] and automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 1st-level, which count towards your normal limits. You also learn 2 free wizard spells of 0-level, which do not count towards those limits. Every time you learn a 1st-level or 2nd-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 1st- or 2nd-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower.

However, upon taking this feat you must choose one primary school of magic for your wizard spells, and four secondary schools of magic for your wizard spells, while treating the other three schools of magic as banned to you, for purposes of wizard magic only. The eight schools of magic are Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. You lose the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells of the schools that are banned to you, and likewise lose the capacity to activate such spells in magic items (even versions of those spells that happen to be non-wizardly). You immediately lose all knowledge of how to cast and use such banned spells, if you already knew any such spells beforehand, but only if they are wizard spells. Thus, if they were previously part of your total wizard spells known, they are removed from that list. You are no longer considered to have those spells on your wizard spell list.

In exchange for your specialization, you gain certain added benefits from your deeper study of certain arcane forces. Your wizard spells of the primary school gain +2 to their saving throw DCs, and you gain +2 on caster level checks involving those wizard spells, as well as a +2 bonus on your own saving throws against wizard spells of that school. Lastly, you gain +2 on all Knowledge [arcana] and Spellcraft checks related to your primary school of magic, even regarding such effects of a non-wizardly nature, so long as they are connected to your primary school of magic. This makes it easier for you to learn and cast such spells, as a result.
Special: You cannot gain this feat if you possess the Wizard feat, and vice versa.



Wizard (General)
You have learned to cast arcane magic spells, through study and rote formulas.
Prerequisites: Int 11+, Spellcraft 1+ ranks
Benefit: Knowledge [arcana] is a permanent class skill for you, at this level and all levels gained henceforth. You henceforth have the capacity to learn and cast wizard spells, but you are limited to learning and casting wizard spells of only 2nd-level and lower. At the level you gain this feat, you acquire 1 free rank in Knowledge [arcana] and automatically learn 2 wizard spells of 1st-level, which count towards your normal limits; if your ranks in the skill are already maximized before gaining this feat, then you do not gain the free rank and these 1st-level spells known. Regardless, you also learn 2 free wizard spells of 0-level, which do not count towards those limits. Every time you learn a 1st-level or 2nd-level wizard spell, you get 1 less skill point at that level (per 1st- or 2nd-level spell learned). Thus, with the 2 such spells granted by this feat, you get 2 fewer skill points at this level. This can reduce your number of skill points for the level to 0 but no lower.
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Just start the game at 4th level, so a character can be Smart 3/Mage 1 or Dedicated 3/Acolyte 1, or Charismatic 3/Sorcerer 1 (from d20 Past), or Smart 3/Telepath 1, or Strong 3/Battle Mind 1, etc, etc, etc.
 

Dagger of Lath said:
However the group wants to use the attribute-based classes from D20 modern. The real problem is including spell-casting and other special abilities into the mix.

Been there, done that. Still playing that, actually. What we did was probably not that close to what you're looking for, and one of these days I really have to post the full rules somewhere (it's not short), but it went like this.

Start with the six Basic Classes, one for each stat. Alter them a bit; no Medium saves, change the skill lists to use D&D's skills, drop the class Defense bonuses, that sort of thing.

Create three Advanced Classes, one for each type of magic. There are only two entrance requirements to each of these classes: the appropriate Affinity Feat (which gives cantrip-level magic), and you must have a Good save in a previous class for the appropriate saving throw (given in parentheses below). Instead of having their own lists of class skills, feats, and talents, these classes simply modify the Basic Class you already had. (That is, if a Fast Hero who then goes Wizard gets bonus feats, he can select the Fast Hero feats or the Wizard-specific feats. When the Wizard class gives a Talent, it's a Fast talent, since there are no Wizard-specific ones.)

The classes are:
Wizard (Will): a WIS-based prepared-spell caster with some ability to spontaneously swap them out as needed. A lot like the D&D Cleric, but no armor, bad BAB, and more choices for spontaneous casting. On the other hand, it has a much more limited number of known spells; effectively, the Sorcerer's known spells plus whatever your Domains give you (and at high level you'd have 4 or 5 domains), so it's a lot like the Divine Sorcerer variants. There's some specialization, but not in a very limiting way.
Channeler (Reflex): an INT-based spontaneous caster who expends HP to cast spells and can do so in light armor. The Channeler can slowly heal the damage he causes himself, so he can theoretically have an unlimited number of encounters each day, but he can't unload a bunch of powerful stuff at once like a Wizard could. He knows all spells, but has a hard time casting ones that aren't just direct manifestations of elements/forces. (i.e., he's good with fireball but not so much with haste; it gets moved up a level or two) Also, he specializes far more than the Wizard; anything outside of his specialties is far harder to cast, which restricts to lower spell levels.
Mutant (Fortitude): a slightly CHA-based "innate" magic class, based on the Hero class from Four Colors To Fantasy; inherent stat boosts and spell-like abilities that can be used any number of times per day. Very popular with the fighter-types who just want to boost a few stats or gain a minor ability (run speed, darkvision, damage reduction, maybe even a slow regeneration or reduced aging) while still progressing in their original class. (In D&D, the Barbarian and Monk would effectively be what you'd get by mixing the Mutant with various Basic classes.)

The key is that the spellcasting is somewhat skill-based. Most things depend on two skills (which can easily be transported into standard D&D):
Focus (no stat) replaces caster level within spell effects. (Note "effects"; the duration/range part isn't modified, and still depends on actual caster level.)
Manifestation (a CHA skill) is used for touch or ranged touch spells (instead of BAB + STR/DEX), most "opposed" psionics like charm (instead of a set DC or a WIS save), and a few other things like that.
Spells per day are still based on class level. The caster classes all get at least 4 skill points per level, since they need to keep the above two skills maxxed in addition to the previous stuff.

Anyway, like I said, I've been playing this system for a while now, and I really like it. It's a bit of a different feel than normal D&D, though, so it's probably not what you're looking for; practically every adventurer has at least a little magic, but even the casters use swords and/or armor.
 
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You can get "Classically Modern" for free from
http://www.freewebs.com/merlinsworkshop/CMsap.htm

it does what you are talking about and a whole lot more. It breaks out all of the various fantasy abilities like spellcasting, shapechanging, etc. into feats and talent trees but then also does all of the core fantasy classes as prestige classes that you get to from the modern base classes.
 

ValhallaGH said:
Spatzimaus, why did you drop the class defense?

Well, IMO, the class defense helped cover for the fact that in a modern setting, armor would be far less common (and never enchanted). It balanced the ever-increasing firepower and scaling BABs of your opponents.

For instance, in a 10-level span, Strong, Tough, and Dedicated went from +1 to +5, Fast from +3 to +8, and Smart and Charismatic from +0 to +3. Coincidentally, this is about what your non-mundane AC boosts (Bracers of Armor, armor enchantment, DEX boosts, miscellaneous AC-boosting magic items) would scale by in D&D. So, if you're allowing a game system where all those other things exist, keeping an inherent class defense bonus is just overkill.

So, each class got some things to compensate. Most got some armor and weapon proficiencies automatically, and the ones with Medium saves had them upgraded to Good. A few had small other changes, too.

We also got rid of the whole Reputation and Wealth systems. Money is money; if you want to buy something, pay for it. There are already plenty of systems that quantify the cost of a given "lifestyle", and that's easy enough to manage.
And Reputation is something you should develop through roleplaying; it's nice that they tried to quantify aspects of it, but it went too far IMO.
(We also ditched Action Points, but later added them back in. They're too useful to ignore.)
 
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Wow, thankyou everyone. There's a lot of really useful things here, but I've decided to actually step a bit outside standard D&D here and experiment with a very simplified fusion of D&D and D20 modern.

No classes. Replacing a large number of variable attributes such as B.A.B. by simply using the character's level. Replacing most class-level variables with 1/2 level.

No numeric attributes. Each character possesses a certain number of talents which can be selected from any of the attribute classes (with normal pre-requisites). For each talent chosen in a particular attribute that attribute is treated as having a +1 modifier.

No spell levels. A smaller spell-list divided into direct-damage, area-effect damage, monster summoning, etc. Each spell effect can be customised on the fly from a spellcraft check.

Heavy feat reliance for special abilities. 1 feat granted per level.

Willpower, Reflexes and Fortitude are used not as saving throws by the characters but as DCs by the opponents triggering a saving throw. By turning Spell-resistance into a minimum save for any spell-based effect (possibly with some exceptions), reduces the number of rolls required.

Removing hit points of damage and replacing it with a wound level system of
(Attack roll - Defense + Weapon's Damage Bonus - Armour's DR) / 5 [rounded up] wounds per attack. Sounds complex but should work out pretty simply in practise once people are used to it, reduces number of dice rolls as well.

Each character has 5 wounds + Constitution Modifier (certain talents and feats grant more). Last one is disabled, second to last is exhausted, third to last is fatigued.


...Yeah, bit insane I know. Once I start meddling with a system I don't really stop. Anyway I've spent the last ten hours or so writing up these rules (in much greater detail) for the players. Not going to be awake much longer.
 

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