FAQ on Monks + Gauntlets

[hazmat]

except in my previous post the SRD quotes do interchange them.

 

[Kieperr]

This FAQ entry is incorrect. A monk can only use his unarmed strike or special monk weapons to flurry, as pointed out, but the FAQ states that the monk would take a nonproficiency penalty. How can a monk make a flurry attack with a weapon he is not proficient with when the flurry rules state that he can only make flurry attacks with weapons he is proficient with? He can't.

As to a monk not being proficient with unarmed strikes, a monk's unarmed strike is not the unarmed strike simple weapon in the weapons section but a class feature of the monk. So a monk is not proficient with the unarmed strike or gauntlet simple weapons and cannot use them to flurry, although he can use his unarmed strike calss feature in such a manner.

 

[Kieperr]

except in my previous post the SRD quotes do interchange them.

No they don't.

 

[Gansk]

** Edit: I'm going to backpedal on this statement. See my post below. "Unarmed attack" and "unarmed strike" are not equivalent statements.

Going by a strict reading of the rules, this is not true. Gauntlets and unarmed strikes are both listed as simple weapons. But monks are not proficient with simple weapons. Going by a strict reading, then, not only are monks not proficient with gauntlets, they aren't proficient with unarmed strikes! Poor monks, not only do they have a crappy BAB progression, they also get a -4 to all attacks made unarmed. Wizards also have this problem.

If you take a slightly less strict interpretation of the rules, the FAQ ruling fits fairly well. The hang up is that "unarmed strike" and "unarmed attack" are not the same. However, if they are the same (the extra damage and lethality is just a specialized monk version of the unarmed attack), then

1) the monk is proficient in the simple weapon called "unarmed attack"
2) the monk is not proficient in the simple weapon called "gauntlet"
3) the monk can flurry with an unarmed strike using any part of his body
4) if the monk chooses to uses his fists as part of the flurry, the gauntlets come into play

 

[RigaMortus2]

So what IS the difference between "unarmed strike" and "unarmed attack"? Is there a definition of each? What does one do that the other doesn't do? How do they relate to attacking?

 

[Infiniti2000]

unarmed attack
A melee attack made with no weapon in hand.

unarmed strike
A successful blow, typically dealing nonlethal damage, from a character attacking without weapons. A monk can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, but others deal nonlethal damage.

Is a gauntlet a "weapon in hand"? If so, you are not making an unarmed attack with it. The same thing with an unarmed strike.

So, then we could say a gauntlet is not a weapon (and thus no proficiency is required). It merely transforms your unarmed strike damage into lethal damage.

The difference between the two terms above is that an unarmed strike is a specific type of unarmed attack. Other types would be a grapple, trip, disarm, etc. Everywhere you see "unarmed attack" you can substitute any type of unarmed attack unless explicitly told otherwise. However, you cannot take unarmed strike and substitute any other unarmed attack because an unarmed attack is a much more general case. Not that an unarmed attack need not actually deal damage, such as with a trip. This makes the equivalence of gauntlet to unarmed attack incongruous.

 

[Klaus]

From the quotes, all I can see is that an unarmed strike is a successful unarmed attack...

 

[seans23]

Just treat gauntlets of ogre power as gloves, similar to the gloves of dexterity.

Unlike regular gauntles, which are made of metal, and come as part of some armor, gauntlets of ogre power are made of leather.

 

[Klaus]

... with metal studs on the back of the hands.

The disadvantage of using magic gauntlets vs. amulet of mighty fists is that the amulet enchants all of your magic weapons (which, for a monk, is his entire body... IYKWIMAITYD). With the gauntlets, you must have at least one free hand to attack.