Fast, Abstracted Combat for Minor Encounters

[Radiating Gnome]

The conversation around Mearls' L&L column today on the 1-hour adventure got me thinking about a stunt I tried a while back to create a system that we could use to quickly play through combat encounters that were less important than the main, tactical encounters of the adventure.

When the PCs tried to move from one area to the next they were faced with a horde of kobold defenders.

I wanted a system that would be fast, let players use combat powers and make choices, and give them options based on their broad class type (defender, striker, etc). Here's what I came up with:

[sblock]
Large Passages:These passages are directly defended by the kobold throngs. To fight their way through, the PCs must do (# of PCs x 30)* Hit Points of Damage in a Damage challenge.

• Actions: Each round, Pcs get a Standard action and a minor action (moves are abstracted out).
• Attacks: are made against AC 17, Def 15*. Damage is rolled normally. No other rider effects have any impact on the challenge.
• Any order: PCs may act in any order, but only once per round.
• Retaliation: Every time a PC attacks, that PC is also subject to a retaliatory attack (+7 vs AC, 1d8+5 damage)*.
• Hanging Back: A PC may elect to hang back and not attack to avoid the retaliatory attacks -- this is not perfect, though. When a PC hangs back, he can make a save: if he succeeds, he avoids retaliation. If he fails, he is still attacked (a thrown rock, crossbow bolt, etc). This attack can still be redirected by a defender as usual (see below).

Role- Specific Advantages (hybrids must pick one to apply each round):

• Striker: Bonus Damage for hunter's quarry, curses, sneak attack, etc, may be applied to one attack per round.
• Controller: Burst or Blast attacks may make an attack roll for each # of the attack's area (Burst 3 may make 3 attack rolls, etc).
• Defender: Can redirect any retaliatory attack at himself away from the targeted Ally
• Leader: Can give up attack to grant an ally a basic attack. Can use healing powers

Once the Party has done enough damage, they may pass on into the next area.


*The players were 3rd level at the time. You'll want to scale these appropriately to your party's level, if you use it.
[/sblock]

It worked pretty well -- it's certainly not something to try all the time, but it makes sense in the right situation.

-rg

 

[Mengu]

Great minds...

I did something similar, for a rather different scenario. The PC's were part of a dwarven army, attacking an army of minotaurs and demons. The PC's weren't even all necessarily fighting together, they were scattered around the batllefield, helping where necessary. I gave the enemy army like 1200 hit points (solo'ish x1.5 because I have 6 players). I just kind of did initiative around the table (it goes faster), but most the rules I used were similar to yours. I also allowed skills to be used where the PC's wanted, dealing a set amount of damage to the enemy (I told the PC's their use of skills were helpful, but never told them the exact mechanics, just described the impacts).

I think the method decently captured that feel of a massive battle, and players had fun with it. Goes to show even in the strictly structured combat system of 4e, when the scenario demands it, a bit of creativity goes a long way toward coming up with a solution for conflict resolution.

 

[Quickleaf]

That's a nice little system. But from looking it over I can guess you didn't have any area casters or warlords in the party.

Area burst 1 and it only hits one monster / gets one attack in a passage full of kobolds? That ain't right.

The warlord's at-wills are better than the leader option to grant a basic attack.

 

[Mengu]

That's a nice little system. But from looking it over I can guess you didn't have any area casters or warlords in the party.

Area burst 1 and it only hits one monster / gets one attack in a passage full of kobolds? That ain't right.

The warlord's at-wills are better than the leader option to grant a basic attack.

Actually he gave burst/blast attackers an extra few attack rolls, which means better accuracy, and more chances to crit if nothing else. In my scenario, I made the army vulnerable 10 to bursts and blasts (ala swarm mechanics).

The warlord issue, is not an issue, if you have something better, you use it. In my scenario, I had a shaman granting the ranger or warlock extra attacks. It was difficult to work in the "allies gain CA against the target" mechanic, so I just gave CA for the next attack in that general area of the battle, where the spirit companion was situated.

These sorts of scenarios can be custom tailored to the group, since you know who you're running for, so one does not have to spell out every contingency. And if the oddball situation comes up, you make a favorable ruling and move on.

 

[Quickleaf]

Actually he gave burst/blast attackers an extra few attack rolls, which means better accuracy, and more chances to crit if nothing else. In my scenario, I made the army vulnerable 10 to bursts and blasts (ala swarm mechanics).

Controller: Burst or Blast attacks may make an attack roll for each # of the attack's area (Burst 3 may make 3 attack rolls, etc).

Area burst 1....effects 1 creature, by my reading. Sort of the opposite of a swarm's vulnerability since the area attack is being penalized. And most area attacks are area burst 1.

The warlord issue, is not an issue, if you have something better, you use it. In my scenario, I had a shaman granting the ranger or warlock extra attacks. It was difficult to work in the "allies gain CA against the target" mechanic, so I just gave CA for the next attack in that general area of the battle, where the spirit companion was situated.

I was just observing that with the defender getting a neat trick, the other leaders getting a neat trick...a warlord player in that scenario would feel left out.

These sorts of scenarios can be custom tailored to the group, since you know who you're running for, so one does not have to spell out every contingency. And if the oddball situation comes up, you make a favorable ruling and move on.

Yes, exactly. I wasn't criticizing the idea - it's a great idea - I was making an observation that the rules were tailored to a certain group composition. Hopefully to be helpful for other DMs interested in doing the same, but who maybe didn't pick up on how it would need to be tailored on the first read-through.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Area burst 1....effects 1 creature, by my reading. Sort of the opposite of a swarm's vulnerability since the area attack is being penalized. And most area attacks are area burst 1.

Good point -- you could add +1 attack for bursts. That still wouldn't balance things perfectly between blasts and bursts, but it would be closer.

The group I used this with were fairly casual/inexperienced players, so I can pretty much get away with murder. But the important thing for me was to give them a way to do something a little tailored to their party role -- let defenders defend, controllers and strikers do extra damage, and leaders .... heal. It didn't have to be perfectly balanced or fair, because we would move through it quickly.

The key was retaining some choices -- they each have a couple of at wills, and in many cases some would be a lot less useful than others, but that's okay with me. They don't all have to be equally good choices. And they also have the opportunity to use encounter or daily powers, too -- spend those resources on the trash! Go for it!

I'm sure it would need to be tweaked to handle other situations -- and it might look very different if you were modeling a fight against enemies who were dispersed (elven archers in a treeline) .... the trick is just to give it a try and see what you can come up with.

-rg

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=150]Radiating Gnome[/MENTION]
I very much intend to give it a try! I was actually thinking back to an encounter with a cranium rat hive that might have been better using a similar setup to your OP.

Question: Did you explain those rules when you set up the scene? Or did you keep the rules on your side of the DM screen and explained things on a need-to-know basis?

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I'm an explainer; For (most) skill challenges and things like it I explain the rules, and this is no exception. That's just how I do it, though.

IMO, if you're using a system to play a game and you don't share the rules with the players, then the rules might as well not exist. To that end, when we're doing RP encounters that would be weird having the Skill Challenge mechanics used for them, I tend to just RP and throw in skill checks when I feel like it, the way we did in the old days.

If you try it, I'd love to hear how it goes, and see how you revise the idea.

-rg

 

[Unwise]

Regarding AE attacks, wouldn't you just give 1 attack per square across the affected area is? So Blast 3 = 3; burst 1 = 3; burst 2 = 5 etc.

I like the idea. I often have the PCs fighting swarms of crappy zombies or other trash. Lately I have been running them as battlefield wide terrain hazards.

For example, they were on a battlefield filled with starved, lower level, ill-equipped, deranged orcs. I just ran it like this:
- Every square you move on the ground counts as difficult terrain. As you move slower hewing through the orcs by the droves.
- You can ignore this difficult terrain, by being hit for 2 damage per square as some of the orcs get lucky shots on you.

This worked pretty well. They had to get from A to B quickly, so had to weigh up how much damage they were willing to take from these loony orc hordes before they could confront the real enemy at the back of the battlefield. If they wait too long, a ritual is complete, the siege engines have done their work or they are too late to save a militia unit.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Cool idea. Might have to steal it for something.

This is one of the things that I've always loved about 4e -- these sorts of invention have always been possible, in any edition, but there's a very real philosophical flavor to 4e that encourages this sort of invention. Make up your own monsters, make up your own terrain, make up your own challenges -- the exceptions based design, I think, releases DM creativity in interesting ways.