Fatal (for PC) communications misunderstanding

If the DM asks you to clarify your actions specifically, that does tip off the player that there is something to be careful about. To avoid this, and to give rogues the benefit of their abilities, I simply ask the player to make a search check. If they make it, I tell them they spotted the trap just before it sprung. If not, then I hit them with the trap.

Of course, they still have to, you know, do something that should trigger the trap. Looking in a window shouldn't do that. Climbing through would. Or maybe reaching in to grap something. Depends on how it is activated.

Bad DM! :)
 

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Way for DM to handle this ...

AlanSmithee said:
...
Here's what happened at my game yesterday:
GM: As you get closer to the cabin, approaching from the rear, you see it has an open window with a bag of gems in it.
Me, the rogue: <gestures the other PC's to halt> I carefully move closer and look through the window.
GM: Make a Reflex save DC 22.
Me, with a 4 Reflex save: Failed.
GM, to the other PCs: You see Dusty's head fall off.
Others: :eek:

Sounds like the DM was a bit eager to show off his trap.

I've found a better way to handle such issues is to break them down into smaller steps:

GM: You approach the window, and you see the corner of a table inside, an a small bag
on it. There is more of the room, but it is out of sight around the corner of the window.

Player: I edge up next to the window and peer sideways inside.

GM: You can seem more of the table, but there are cabinets on either side of the window
that keep you from seeing very well to either side.

At this point, the player might get cautious, but this is better than flat out asking:

GM: You approach to look through the window. Do you put your head inside to take
a clear look around?

Also, if you player is a rogue, then "proper form" would suggest sidling up to the window,
sneakwise, and cautiously looking through the window. No trained thief would stick his
head in the window right off, and the GM should assume that. Now, if you had a low
wisdom character (but not a thief, or maybe only a very low wisdom thief), proper role
playing suggests that the character *would* stick their head in, but many players won't
role play this in such a fasion.
 

I think this was a bad call on the Dms part. I have a DM who tends to do the same thing. And it drives me crazy. He is a good DM in other areas but he makes you explain in detail everything you do.

Fornexample in our Shadowrun game I play a mage and have been playing one for well over two years real time and for six years game time. So she is not a novice. When you go astral in Shadowrun your body goes limp. Now I often use going astral to scout it not something done on the fly or in the middle of say a battle.

But if I don't say that I lay down before going astral he assumes that I just went astral and I fall and take some stun damage.

Sometimes I forget and say I am going to go astral to look at something. And boom here comes a head injury. :\

It does not make sense to me becauae my character is an experienced mage and would not just jump out of her body.
 

AlanSmithee said:
Now, the GM is, in many ways, an excellent GM, by far the best I've played with (which isn't too many, but still). I'm not doing this to b*tch behind his back. He is very imaginative and original with his plots, an accomplished actor for the NPCs and has a lot of experience. But he is a killer GM, and I've spoken to him before about it. He feels that it is important for things to be difficult, so when we manage to complete one of his campaigns it is a real acheivement. I feel the story is more important and it is very unsatisfying to, as has happened in the past, die in a random encounter and never resolve the storylines.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I would not call this GM an excellent GM. Simply because of the fact that he is more concerned about "his campaigns being tough and challenging" than he is about "his players having fun".

That is what it boils down to.

As to what he did to your character? Totally wrong, and if it had been me, I would have raised all sorts of a fuss over it. Yes, it is only a game, but I have a temporal and emotional investment in my characters, and I do not think that some GM "mis-interpreting" what I said in order to show off his trap(s).

As for the window trap itself, I have major problems with that as well. How did sticking your head in the window set it off? If the trap was designed to chop off the hand of whomever grabbed the bag of goodies sitting there (how are you supposed to know what is in the bag?), then that means that the trigger for the trap is likely to be a string/line/wire attached to the bag itself, where pulling on the bag releases the catch holding the blade up.

Thus, I again ask how did just sticking your head into the window was supposed to set the trap off. Did you bump the bag of goodies? If there were a wire across the center of the window, you should have seen it.

From what you are describing, this is a GM who is more infatuated with his own "cleverness" than anything else.

AlanSmithee said:
I said "I approach the door, checking for traps"
To me, this means that you check for traps as you get closer to the door. It, however, does not say that you check the door itself for traps.

As for how the GM can handle things better, without giving anything away, that is plain simple....

When I GM, I have several habits that I try to cultivate. One of them is randomly rolling dice. Sometimes this has a purpose, sometimes it doesn't. The idea is to mask my real rolls with the fake ones.

I will also ask for clarification on actions that I do not think are clear. It does not matter if there is a trap there are not, or whether the clarification is clear or not. By asking for clarification, even when it is not important, it sets a precendent that will not arouse suspicion during those times when it is important.

And to solve your immediate issue I normally do the following: The GM can quite easily, take what you told the him and paraphrase it back at you, giving you the chance to correct his interpretation without calling undue attention.

For example, the initial exchange could have played out like this:

GM: As you get closer to the cabin, approaching from the rear, you see it has an open window with a bag of gems in it.
Me, the rogue: <gestures the other PC's to halt> I carefully move closer and look through the window.
GM: You approach the window and begin to put your head through it.
Me, the rogue: Wait! That is not what I said. I said I "look through" the window, not put my head through it and look.
GM: Oh, ok, you look through the window, and see a small table right inside , one the table is the open bag of gems you spotted earlier. Further in is much harder to see as most of the cabin interior is in shadow.
Me, the rogue: Okay, I stick my head through the window to get a better look.
GM: Ok, you lean on the sill and stick your head through the window,the sill rocking slightly as you put your weight upon it. [[Pause for a beat or two]] Okay, as you poke your head through the window, you hear a faint twang as if a taut wire snapped loose, now make a Reflex saving throw.
Me, with a 4 Reflex save: Failed.
GM, to the other PCs: You see Dusty's headless corpse fall back out of the window as something shoots down across the window inside the cabin.
Others: Eeeek!!


See the difference here? In my version, the GM gives you ample opportunity to correct his interpretation of your actions without giving away the presence of the trap.

This would allow him to retain his challenging campaigns without unfairly hurting your character OR giving anything away needlessly. It is a win-win suggestion.

If your GM is as good as you think he is, then suggest this to him, the paraphrasing of your actions, especially since he possibly mis-interpreted them twice now. It can only improve his GMing skills.

In any case, you NEED to talk to him. Once might be an accident, but twice looks awfully suspicious and you need to clear the air between you and him. To let him know that while you do not mind tough campaigns, you do mind your character dying for him thinking you meant one thing while you most difinitely did not mean what "he thought" you did.

As I said above, the paraphrasing suggestion allows him to say what he thinks you said you are doing, giving you the chance to correct that interpretation if need be without giving anything away about the campaign. At least as long as he is consistent about it....

If he doesn't want to use the suggestion, then chances are that his "misinterpretations" are on purpose, not accidental. At that point, you might want to consider your options and whether or not you want to continue under this GM because I can ensure you that it WILL happen again.
 

It does sound like a case of the GM picking on you a bit over semantics.

But my first thought on reading your original post was that you should have turned this against him when he said "You see it has an open window with a bag of gems sitting in it." My immediate response would have been: "How do I know there are gems in the bag?" Sounds like your GM was using his own lack of clarity to lead you on. :\
 

It is all about assumptions.
You are assuming one thing, the DM is assuming another. I would have a chat, starting with just that: 'We seem to assuming different things based on the same sentances.' You say X, I hear X, but assume X+Y. I say A, you hear me say A, and assume that also means B and C. Or, the other version, You hear A, and I said A, assuming that it means A+B, but you only assume A.

Have a talk about standard operating procedures. IE - I don't stick my head or hand in anything unless I specially say so. If I say 'checking from traps' it means from where my character currently is to the target, not just the target.

And likewise, talk to the GM about what information HE is giving you. A 'bag of gems'? How do you know that? Often a GM has a picture in their mind, but have trouble passing that picture to the players.
Until you have a comfortable level of trust that you are 'on the same wavelength' - question everything! And give details about what you are doing! Give a short version - I approach, checking for traps... By that, I mean I do X, Y and Z - understand?

Does 'a cabin in the woods' mean a small 10x10 log cabin? Is this a 30x40 cabin/house with a second story? Well made or shody? Old or new? Kept up or uncared for/abandoned looking? Chimney? Roof? Thatch/straw roof? Peaked or flat?
 

I was once the victim of the opposite side of this coin – I didn’t say I *wasn’t* doing something, and that got me killed.

AD&D1: Our party was invited into the back room of a tavern to have wine with a shady group wanting to congratulate us for a job well done. The wine glasses were filled, and the DM assumed we all drank. I, though, was leery of the set up, and was not going to drink the wine offered. The DM didn’t ask us or clarify or even give us a moment to say anything about drinking. He just went from “He makes a toast to your good work, and everyone drinks. Give me a saving throw versus poison.”

I was trying to think of a way to get rid of the wine in my glass without anyone noticing that I didn’t even register that second sentence until I heard all the other Players moaning and cursing. Then I said, “Wait a minute! I didn’t drink it.” But, as you can guess, that was taken as a rather unsportsmanlike statement. The poison was the type to only do hit point damage, and was intended to just weaken us all, but my elf magic-user didn’t have many hit points and would have died even with a passed save (less damage than a failed save).

The DM, being a good friend, and taking pity on me, kind of twisted events to have a cleric near by that came to neutralize the poison before it killed my character.

Because of that situation, about 20 years ago, and because of scenarios like in the OP, I make sure that 1- my trap set ups are unmistakable, and 2- I’m sure of the PC’s action, before “springing” a trap.

For instance, in the above scenario, the poison could easily be slow acting; allowing me plenty of time to make sure the PCs had drank the wine before asking for saves. And in the OP scenario, I wouldn’t be so anxious to spring the trap that I couldn’t wait for someone to *explicitly* trip it (or even bypass it with a smart trick).

Quasqueton
 

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