Favorite non-standard DnD Magic System

[Kichwas]

Excluded from the list is the magic system in the PHB and Psionics.

As those are 'the standard DnD system'.

Partial systems are also excluded. Things that take the normal system and modify it.

The survey is only for full standalone systems that could be used in place of the standard system.

Psionics could be used in such a way, but for this survey I'd like to exclude it merely because it's just a little too 'official'.

 

[Horacio]

I've voted for Sovereign Stone, because IMHO it's what Wheel of Time's One Power should have been. A system without slots or magic points, a system where casting spells fatigue you (as in WoT novels do One Power), a system were powerful magic takes time to materialize, and strains the caster...

Sovereign Stone d20 has, IMHO, the best d20 magic system so far (disclaimer: I don't know Chaos Magic yet, I think it can be great).

 

[Psion]

Why the prejudice against official material? Seems rather lame to me, as nearly all of the "unofficial" choices seem to have grevious balance issues.

But then, I don't particularly think the existing system NEEDS replacing. There is a reason that the core system has persevered over the years... it is simple and it works. IME, point based systms are too difficult to balance, and often demand niggly acounting on the part of the player.

 

[alaric]

Could someone give a short run down on the basic mechanics of each of the systems, i haven't played with any of them, but would be interested if i knew more about them.

 

[Ashtal]

Talislanta 3rd Edition!

Now, I haven't yet read 4th Edition, and I hear that's pretty nifty, but what I liked about 3rd Edition was that it was rediculously simple yet offered the would-be mage the ability, if you were gutsy, to go from level appropriate power levels to fantastic uberspells.

Basically, you possess a rank of skill in a body of magical knowledge. Let's say Pyromancy. You'd have a set of subskills, your spells, of all sorts of Pyromancy tricks. Now, you can do all of them from the get-go at a comfortable level, rolling your skill like you would anything else to see if you performed your feat.

But let's say you want to make a BIG fire boom spell. You need to take down that critter, and now, or your dead anyways. You can then up the effective level of the spell, taking one heck of a penalty when you roll, but if you pull it off, BOOM! It's like being able to fire a 20th Level Magic Missle at 1st Level, if you don't mind the risks (and they are many and nasty). Plus, it gave you the feeling of being a wizard, with spells, plural. Not just one or three low level spells.

I just always thought it was nifty.

 

[Crothian]

Could someone give a short run down on the basic mechanics of each of the systems, i haven't played with any of them, but would be interested if i knew more about them.

Mongoose's Chaos Magic: Each effect, range, duration, and all that sets the DC for the spell. But you can really be creative in what you want to do. Then you roll your level + cha modifier and hope to get the DC. THere are feats you can take to help with that roll. You take subdual damage equal to the DC/5.

Failing the rolls is where the fun is. Because that starts you down a path of chaos. A path will eventually kill you, but it's not easy to get that far unless oyu are very wreckless, or extremely unlucky.

That's a very basic version, the actually is a little more complex. I've yet to play with it. It didn't suite my current character. But I've added this to the (extensive) list of characters I want to try.

 

[Tsyr]

I'd like to know which of those you find unbalanced Psion...

First of all, remember... balance is in relation to the setting only. So as long as the magic system exists standalone, it's not unbalanced, as I see it. You may think it's over/under powered compared to normal DnD magic, but that's not relevant in the overall comparison.

Most of the listed ones I would actualy say are less powerfull overall than normal DnD... Chaos magic has raw power but it's too darned deadly to use... Sov Stone power is a _little_ more powerfull in the begining, but not as levels increase. I have no experience with the Deadlands magic, though, so I can't comment there... Wheel of Time may have some, but again, only when compared to normal DnD magic.

As for "why"... I could as easily ask you "why not". It's not so much a predjudice against official sources -that makes it sound like an evil thing-... More, after years of Vancian magic, I'm open to alternatives just to spice things up. And sorcerer magic is still Vancian, sorry... It's just a little more freeform. Heck, Wheel of Time is still based on vancian magic at it's core.

As for some brief descriptions...

Mongoose's Chaos Magic allows a user to "sculpt" spells on the fly by picking different components to the spell off a sort of "menu", then they try to cast the spell. But it's very deadly... not only is killing yourself through outright spellcasting possible, but you accumulated bad effects when you fail spellcasting roles.

Wheel of Time magic is sorta like a modified Vancian magic... At least, it uses spellslots. You learn "talents" (sorta like schools) of power, which you can use to cast spells. Each talent has different types of spells assosiated with it, and by using different power slots when casting the spell you can create different effects.

Sov Stone magic is elemental... You have four elements (Earth, Air, Fire Water) four combined elements (Nature, etc... elements formed of two of the prime elements) and void, the "fifth element" that doesn't mix with the others. Each element has different spells assosiated with it (Similar to Wheel of Time and talents), but they are more traditional spells... Many of them are just normal DnD spells, with the level replaced with a casting threshold. When you try to cast a spell, you roll a d20 to make the casting threshold. If you succeed, you cast the spell. If not, you keep going. Failures cost fatigue (represented through subdual damage), but there is not "hard and fast" casting limits... a 1st level elemental wizard could theoreticly cast any spell a 20th could for the most part... if he could survive casting it, that is... and a high level wizard can cast low level stuff all day because he will almost never take damage from the low casting threshold on the lowerlevel stuff. Void magic (sorta like necromancy) has some pretty powerful spells, but has downsides to casting... You take real damage, not subdual, and magic healing doesn't heal you as long as you have "void taint" (damage from casting void spells). Each race (in sov stone... in normal DnD you could just allow a person to choose it, I suppose) has a "favored" element... and an element they are weaker in. In sov stone, for example, elves are favored in air, dwarves in fire, ork in water, etc. Sov stone magic is by far and away my favorite d20 magic system, even over official magic systems.

I havn't got enough chance to look over Fading Suns to give a GOOD description yet, and I have no expeirience with Deadlands.

 

[Kichwas]

Why the prejudice against official material? Seems rather lame to me, as nearly all of the "unofficial" choices seem to have grevious balance issues.

It's not a prejudice against the existing system. It's just a simple question of what other systems do people like. No need to infer anything beyond that into the poll.

I'd be curious to know what the people who chose other meant as their choices. What they would have chosen if I had managed to get it into the poll.

 

[Ace]

Soveriegn stone magic rocks IMO, balanced different and cool.

In second place, a modified version of the WOT magic.

In the games I play the most common varient I see isn't one of those but a power point based use of the standard rules basically add your cas table spell levels+1 together and thats your pool.
Spells cost level +1 to cast.

Of course if you are going to do this you won't use the sorcerer but thats OK.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm with Ashtal on this. Talislanta is great. It actually lets you do whatever type of spell you want, though more powerful spells have a greater chance of failure. It also slightly inspired my book, Wild Spellcraft, which should be coming out next week.

In Chaos Magic, by Mongoose, tell me. . . . Can you cast, say, Detect Magic? Haste? Teleport? Stoneskin? From the synopses I've heard, it seems like you can only just cast attack spells.

. . . Hmmm. Eventually, I want to see a generic magic system that is very flexible, and which can be used for whatever type of magic you want. Hmmm. That's a goal to shoot for.