D&D 1E Favorite Obscure Rules from TSR-era D&D

[James Gasik]

I still remember Alias and Dragonbait thoroughly abusing the subdual rules in Curse of the Azure Bonds with poor Mist, who was trying so very hard to be an honorable red dragon.

 

[Milieu]

Also, I recall asking on another messageboard how long a subdued dragon stayed subdued. No one, if I remember correctly, was entirely sure.

 

[James Gasik]

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I'm pretty sure selling an intelligent creature is an evil act!

 

[JEB]

I'm pretty sure selling an intelligent creature is an evil act!

Those subdual rules - and the possibility of selling them - actually go back to the original boxed set, where they're uncomfortably more detailed:

Book II, page 13:

Value of Subdued Dragons: Subdued Dragons can be sold on the open market (going out of existence in the game) for from 500 to 1,000 Gold Pieces per hit point it can take. Thus, the Red Dragon in the above example would be worth from 33,000 to 66,000 Gold Pieces. Offers are determined by the referee merely by rolling a six-sided die to see if the offer will be 500 (die 1), 600 (die 2), etc. Gold Pieces.

It's also suggested that that you can do this with any other monster you subdue...

Book I, page 13:

Capture of Non-Player Monsters: Morale dice can cause a man or intelligent monster to attempt to surrender or become subdued. When this happens an offer of service can be made (assuming that communication is possible) as outlined above. Subdued monsters will obey for a time without need to check their reactions, and such monsters are salable (see Book II).

Keeping in mind that a monster in OD&D would include NPC fighting-men and such as well. Thankfully, there's only one other reference to subduing monsters, under lycanthropes, and it's not anywhere near as prescriptive as they did for dragons:

Book II, page 15:

When adults are killed all young under nine-tenths grown will be subdued

Now, I'm not suggesting that this was anything other than a case of Gygax and Arneson not thinking through the unfortunate implications... but still.

 

[JEB]

EDIT: also, the chance being higher the lower the Dragon's hit points are makes me wonder if this was the inspiration for Pokemon...

I had a similar thought when reading the OD&D version, but that has to be a coincidence.

(I also don't actually hate the idea of a version of these subdual rules for a Pokemon-style game... just not against intelligent creatures, thanks. And definitely no selling on the "open market"... )

 

[James Gasik]

I had a similar thought when reading the OD&D version, but that has to be a coincidence.

(I also don't actually hate the idea of a version of these subdual rules for a Pokemon-style game... just not against intelligent creatures, thanks. And definitely no selling on the "open market"... )

Not necessarily, D&D was pretty popular in Japan (even though TSR failed to jump on that market, and Sword World was created instead- then again, that got us The Record of Lodoss War, so definitely a plus). Given how many D&D concepts crept into PC and video games over yonder as it is, the possibility is greater than 0.

 

[CapnZapp]

Unless of course you have one or more backups.

This is about expectations.

In most modern games players don't bother making backup copies simply because the concept "taking away my spellbook" just isn't a thing. It does not happen. Nobody even considers it.

However, if the DM is clear about there being an actual risk of "caster - spellbook separation" that'd be okay. Or more like, not exactly okay, but I could live with it.

But unless the DM and players go way back, we're talking about pretty extreme levels of clarity here:

My monsters WILL try to take away your spellbook so you MUST keep backups.

Anything less than this level of clarity maybe could fly back when 1E was new, but definitely not today.

 

[CapnZapp]

So the idea of "script immunity" to things like losing a spellbook doesn't sit well with me.

As long as you understand that unless the players know you and your DMing style, you absolutely must have a "session 0" where you tell them these things. Explicitly and overtly.

If I can have my monsters ambush you when your character takes a bathroom break, the theoretical idea "you should not have script immunity against this" might seem reasonable, but it needs to be communicated. (Most players simply expect bathroom breaks to be handled "not at all", completely invisible to the gameplay around the table.)

And I don't mean communicated in sweeping or vague terms. You need to tell your players explicitly what kind of DM you are, with concrete examples like "you can lose your spellbook; I will assume you keep backups".

Maybe this didn't need to be stated out loud in 1984, but it definitely needs to be in 2024.

Modern players are conditioned into certain expectations, and the idea there is no script immunity as regards mere conveniences will not occur to them unless you say so exceedingly clearly.

 

[Gus L]

.Ok, time to add another old rule to the pile. May I present, How to Subdue Your Dragon!

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Talk about your complex subsystems, this takes up over half a page in the Monster Manual!

EDIT: also, the chance being higher the lower the Dragon's hit points are makes me wonder if this was the inspiration for Pokemon...

Absolutely typical Gygax rulesmithing ... but I think this rule is interesting as it's also another item in OD&D to point to for its use as an adjunct to domain based wargames. How do you get dragons for your armies? Obviously you beat them up in the dragon beat up minigame (D&D) and then field them.

 

[James Gasik]

This is about expectations.

In most modern games players don't bother making backup copies simply because the concept "taking away my spellbook" just isn't a thing. It does not happen. Nobody even considers it.

However, if the DM is clear about there being an actual risk of "caster - spellbook separation" that'd be okay. Or more like, not exactly okay, but I could live with it.

But unless the DM and players go way back, we're talking about pretty extreme levels of clarity here:

My monsters WILL try to take away your spellbook so you MUST keep backups.

Anything less than this level of clarity maybe could fly back when 1E was new, but definitely not today.

First of all, how does one afford to make a backup spellbook? At what level will you have the money/time to do so? Second of all, where do you keep it?

Third, how do you access it when you need it?

It occurs to me that at most levels of play, it's unrealistic to expect someone to have a backup spellbook or have a safe location to store it. Even protecting it can be problematic- sure there are spells that could protect you from thieves, but you have no expectation of having those spells in the first place.

Heck, based on the laws where you live, putting Explosive Runes or a Fire Trap on your book that seriously injures a thief could be against the law, as a judge might rule that the thief had no realistic expectation that touching a random book could cause them harm!

It seems to me that if one's DM insists on jeopardizing one's spellbook at levels 1-5, you'd be best not playing a Wizard, especially in light of all the other things working against you.